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redria:
I wrote the following before Keyvias posted. Feel free to read it.
--- Quote ---I think the discussion, whether it is here or somewhere else on the forums, needs to take place. I think it needs to be somewhere visible.
From my perspective, and Lydia can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, the point of this thread is to call attention to an imbalance and look for recognition of it. To raise awareness and invite a friendly conversation for explanation and learning. This isn't just about the Girls of Icarus event, though it is an excellent example. This isn't just an event or two that can be put in the past, no matter how easy that path might be.
This also isn't looking for Muse to fix a social imbalance on their own. It isn't accusing every male of treating women poorly.
In every situation where a group of people is discriminated against by society, there will be a range of treatments for each person involved. Some people will have little to no history of mistreatment. Some people will have a lifetime of being wronged. Those on the other side are mostly only aware of the history of those with little to no history, along with knowing a couple examples of the worse abuses.
Where we are here is a point where men and women both need to recognize and acknowledge that women are being mistreated regularly. Not every woman equally. Your experiences will differ from every other person's. But it is a problem, and by acknowledging that it is a problem, we can create an environment where the problem can be discussed safely. Where we can think of solutions and help each other.
You don't have to do much. You can still play the game like you always have. Just recognize that every person you meet comes from somewhere different from yourself, and anything you say, even the small things, can have an impact on another person. If we see a blatant abuse we can address it, but the much more insidious problem is that so many people don't recognize the prevalence of mistreatment, in game and IRL.
Here, and anywhere else you go in life, if someone comes to you with a problem, the most important first step is to recognize that there is a problem.
--- End quote ---
More importantly, in case you miss Keyvias's post since mine is directly after, read his too:
--- Quote from: Keyvias on September 23, 2014, 12:30:10 pm ---Hey Guys,
Want to jump in again. Just wanted to explain why Skrimskraw's post here is gone in case you saw it.
Skrimskraw was speaking from a player perspective and did not represent any views that Muse has. Due to any confusion especially with the CA tag the comment was removed.
As far as moderation goes the Muse Developers that go through every player report by hand. We take every issue seriously, from gender to race, to player privacy, any and all reports of player harassment are treated with the severity a war crimes trial. We treat everyone in the game equally and we don't care who, what, where you are, if you're in our skies and abide by our community standards you are important to us and worthy of protection, attention and service.
Please block and report those who are harassing players for any reason. We act on these reports and it is amazingly important to us that we keep catching, punishing, and removing players who want to make our skies emotionally unsafe for any person to be in.
If we could push back to the main topic (in my opinion, and correct me if I'm wrong) which is not is harassment happening or to what severity, but how can I, the dev team, or the people in this thread help. What ideas does anyone have that we can implement.
The reason I have taken such special interest in this thread is I want to know what the best way I can help those dealing with harassment.
To paraphrase Redria:
There are things we don't know that we don't know about.
--- End quote ---
HamsterIV:
--- Quote from: Felkin on September 23, 2014, 04:23:00 am ---I feel like this has destroyed the fun that was the community, it's not fun to sit there and watch people fight and bicker in lobbies or in the middle of matches because, something that shouldn't have happened, happened, however as a person, I would really like the community to just move on before it ends up shattering itself and further people get upset,
--- End quote ---
I feel this conversation proves the strength of the community. We care enough about our standing and reputation here not to troll or bully people who have a different point of view. I don't agree with all that Lydia has said, but she has the right to say it and others have the right to disagree in a respectful manner. This is a heavy topic but I think it can be discussed without it turning nasty. If you are looking for fun check out the "Codex Zuka" or "Ban the user above you" threads.
Felkin:
--- Quote from: HamsterIV on September 23, 2014, 12:54:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: Felkin on September 23, 2014, 04:23:00 am ---I feel like this has destroyed the fun that was the community, it's not fun to sit there and watch people fight and bicker in lobbies or in the middle of matches because, something that shouldn't have happened, happened, however as a person, I would really like the community to just move on before it ends up shattering itself and further people get upset,
--- End quote ---
I feel this conversation proves the strength of the community. We care enough about our standing and reputation here not to troll or bully people who have a different point of view. I don't agree with all that Lydia has said, but she has the right to say it and others have the right to disagree in a respectful manner. This is a heavy topic but I think it can be discussed without it turning nasty. If you are looking for fun check out the "Codex Zuka" or "Ban the user above you" threads.
--- End quote ---
Sadly it has turned nasty, people are fighting all the time, this isn't being handled like mature adults it's being handled like kids in High school.
Dev Bubbles:
Hi everyone,
Let me weigh in on the topic at hand as well as some of the suggestions made for us to perform moderation better.
So far, the tangible suggestions for us are two:
1) To obscure the notification to reported player so that they don't speculate who reported them. This was an byproduct that we did not anticipate, and currently, our solution is to add a delay to receipt of notification of being reported. The timer I'm recommending is 30min. Of course, there is a chance that the reported person may not receive the report due to the delay. However, we do take notice of every single report that comes through as you know, so we can still act on the report asap.
2) More status updates for the reporter to know status of report filed. Our solution for this is to add notification via email of 2 states of progress - when we received and view the report, and when an action is taken. Please note that we also need to protect individuals' privacy and protect the community against reporters who may not be well intended. Thus, we can only say that we have viewed or have taken some form of action. In other words, we will not be disclosing the specifics of our actions taken. I think the reasoning is obvious here, so hope this is understandable.
We will try our best to implement these for the next update.
Now, for the issue of gender discrimination, let me add to and expand on Matt's comments above. We as a dev team do not condone sexual harassment or gender discrimination in the same way that we do not condone discrimination period. This is how we are as a team, and this is how we aim for for our community. We kill ourselves to go through all the reports, and to distinguish severity and take action. Perhaps we don't always respond instantly or in the time you expect, and we understand that for you, these issues can't wait a minute longer than immediately, but do note this. We have to sleep sometimes to keep our sanity. I would ask for a tiny bit of latitude and understanding, before reaching the conclusion that we are lazy or don't care.
About forming groups for different interests, my position is, anyone is free to form whatever group or clan they so choose. And we support the formation of all interest groups as long as people enjoy the game and abide by our community standards and terms of use. We aim to treat everyone equally. Everyone is our customer, and we try to do our best to make sure everyone enjoy the game. I sincerely hope we can treat everyone with respect and judge us by the strength of our personality, character, intellect, and citizenship, and not by our appearances.
Thanks everyone, Howard
Mean Machine:
--- Quote from: Felkin on September 23, 2014, 04:23:00 am ---I feel like this has destroyed the fun that was the community, it's not fun to sit there and watch people fight and bicker in lobbies or in the middle of matches because, something that shouldn't have happened, happened, however as a person, I would really like the community to just move on before it ends up shattering itself and further people get upset, I understand certain sects of the community are upset right now, but the arguments and fights are spilling over into the parts of the community who haven't even touched this, and have tried their best to stay neutral. We just need to pick up the pieces and move on gals/guys, its in the past and if we keep living in the past how can we live in present and think of the future?
"Life is one big road with lots of signs. So when you riding through the ruts, don't complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy. Don't bury your thoughts, put your vision to reality. Wake Up and Live! - Bob Marley"
"Holding anger is a poison. It eats you from inside. We think that hating is a weapon that attacks the person who harmed us. But hatred is a curved blade. And the harms we do, we do to ourselves. - Mitch Albom"
--- End quote ---
Destroyed fun community? Well, I'm sorry, but I don't think trolls and harassers are fun and by the looks of it, problem is big enough that OP decided to make a thread about it. And she probably didn't make this topic to get a consoling comments, she hopes something can be done about it. Now, I don't have any ideas, but at least I wouldn't go as far to say, "Hey, this topic is making me feel bad".
People are simply discussing how to fix this and exchanging their opinions, I feel sorry for you if you find this as "destroying fun of community".
What if you will need help in the future and you will ask devs, mods or community for help and they would reply with a comment like: "Eh, I'm afraid this could affect other people that will read this forum". If you don't like the thread, you can simply ignore it. No offense.
No wonder this stuff is getting more and more common. Because every single day world is getting more dirty, greedy, unfair, cruel etc.
We are at the point where bad stuff happens everyday and no one wants to do anything about it. They rather ignore it, because it's easier. Or some people even see it as "normal". Like some crazy idiot beating his dog to death and then police comes and ask his neighbour about info and he says "well, i think this is normal, it happens every day." - happened few days ago not for the first time. Or also not long ago dude beat up a pregnant woman and there were about 10 random people standing ten feet away and watching with their hands literally crossed. Like they are on some show. And no, this stuff doesn't happen "only in America".
I know these are more extreme cases, but hey, everything has it's begging. One day someone will harass a girl online, next week he will find a victim in real life and god knows what to do with her...
I know men are thinking differently and can overlook things, or don't understand things, I know, I'm also a dude and I would be lying if I's say I understand females more then anyone here, but I can imagine how tough it is for them. It's sad they can't enjoy themselves and relax even in a fucking game where we all come to relax and get away from real life problems. It really is sad.
I've seen enough bullying and harassing in school and I'll be honest I didn't always do my best to stop it. I could probably stop it, but I didn't. I was a kid. I was stupid. But now, I couldn't sleep if I'd just simply ignore someone who really needs help.
Anyway, like I said, I don't really have any good ideas to fix this, but I just wanted to say that it's good to see that people are actually discussing about it. Unfortunately the best advice I could give is same as pretty much everyone else said, report and block, but I do hope someone gets better idea how to deal with those people. :)
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