Main > Gameplay
Final Defining Spire Buff
Crafeksterty:
I want to adress what has been on a thread in the Dev App forums and bring them here for more feedback and discussion.
Im pretty worn on the discussion but i am also one man that thinks as one mind when trying to solve this puzzle.
And that is one final buff or a combination of buffs that can finalize the image of the Spire to make people want to use it.
We had the discussion about buffing other ships instead of nerfing some ships. This ship is one of them, even though i actually want to look at the squid, one final spire buff should be enough.
Alot of people do have their toughts on it and that is what i want to hear.
I am probably the only one who uses it to its extent. In most cases a brawly fashion because of the over bundance of pyras and goldfishies. The best gun imo is the Lumberjack. But that build only works if the enemy ship is not pyramideon. Not saying pyra is unbalanced, just that people tend to use pyras and i cant use a LJ build. Which then makes me switch things around. But your not ever up against 1 ship, its 2. So one has to think about how one build works against 2 ships. If you take out one ship, can you assist your ally on the other? And that is a Different Story surrounding the Spire
The Spire today actualy does work if used well, one has to go beyond the 4 star difficulty that it has.
Problem is that there isnt much forgiveness being brought to those who use a spire. It is usually dependant on the player skill and timing along with the ally ship.
We want to make the ship a bit more less dependant from its ally, and make the players actually feel safer or recognizing to the spires ability.
How can we do that?
When the Spire was buffed, it was more of a Berf than a buff. (Berf = Nerf+Buff)
It was a change, the previous spire could point 2 guns infront, and barely a third gun. The fourth was always reserved for a flare or flamethrower.
However the spire had alot of armor, problem is it was downstairs. So only 1 engineer or engineer and gunner was on it rebuilding a pyra like hull.
The baloon was on the empty spot that you see now right behind the helm. Overall the components were easier to manage and keep up but its firepower was very lackluster and from its size, it was weak because it got hit alot. Things changed, the side guns got a 45 degree turn forward and now you can have 4 guns pointing in one direction.
But the baloon got placed downstairs, while the hull placed at the middle of the ship to take away soe attention of being tanky like the goldfish now with goldfish armor.
Funniest thing about this is that the spire was just as strong, just the current one is more flexible so it can problem solve more now.
Here are the different buffs proposed from different sources and myself, make your own also. I wanna discuss on this.
Move the hull to where the baloon used to be
Place the hull on the empty spot up by the helm!
This gives quick access for the engineer and pilot that are upstairs and repair the hull.
--- Quote ---My Comment
This is both Good and Bad
Good because it goes for atleast a main engineer and a pilot helping out on the hull with an immidiate repair.
Bad because it now takes away the gunners and second engineers ability to help on the hull.
Current hull is pretty balanced in terms of getting to it and over all repairs. Second engineer can usually run around the ship, taking laps from baloon to main gun to hull then jump down again. While an immidiate path upwards is the ladder. While the new one allows for the pilot and main engineer to do a quick repair but next to no reason for other players to come up as well.
The spire can be extremely tanky versus some ships if all come to repair on the hull, rebuilding and repairing it. This buff will make the hull repairing easier, but also linear. Also enforcing for an engineer pilot.
What i like about this is that is gives less tought on the hull so the players can focus more on other things since it is so easy to grab.
--- End quote ---
Double its accelerationThis is pure stat upgrade
The spire is the slowest ship in the game, this buff gives it some control on his allready slow speed.
--- Quote ---My Comment
Basicaly make better use of the spires body. The spire in general should be able to position and move around. Its not fast, but atleast it should be able to move when it has to move.
Double acceleration or more can lead to better positioning. Playing with range better, and backpaddling better. Along with kyrosine or moonshine, it can lead to some mindgamey elements where if the spire will go back or forwards to avoid a ram. Not only this, with double acceleration, the spire can more easily jump into cover quicker.
Even today, you can dodge lumber/Hades shots just by showing off ones side. With double acceleration would make for a more apparent element on the spire.
Much like how the mobula can dodge vertically. The spire should dodge horizontaly.
I also want to stress the fact it would play with range better, on its arming time, dodging shots and do suprising turns for a thin slow ship.
I really support this idea, but it doesnt solve most problems on the spire. This buff is a good one to combine with some other buff.
--- End quote ---
More armorVery simple
up to 500 or 550 or 600 armor instead of its 400.
--- Quote ---My comment
But im very much against this idea. The armor that each ship have is not that far from eachother, if the armor goes up it will meet up with the pyra mideon. Buffed armor will lead to higher or that of a mobula or pyramideon. Making a very glass cannony unbuffed pyramideon.
For example, (current spire armor)400 + 30% is 520. 500 + 30% is 650(Pyramideon armor). 550 + 30% is 715 armor (Mobula armor i think, 100 less than junker armor)
So allready its becoming tanky. If you are thinking about all ships being buffed in comparison, it will still give the spire an advantage. It would then be a pyra with 4 guns. versus a buffed pyra with 2 guns. So it is mostly for non-competetive balance. Competetively its not balanced. Uncompetetively, its balanced. But if both dont agree, then its not a good choice.
But remember, that is my oppinion, you can say otherwise.
--- End quote ---
Taking out unnecessary spire bits (Hitbox discussion)
Would help alot in unoticable ways.
--- Quote ---My comment
Some of the more arguments fly torwards the pointy bit of the spire being unnecessary and should be removed. But then you are taking away the personality of the ship.
Some arguments go torwards the baloon ram of the spire being problematic. There is also the many parts of the spire being both hull and baloon. Where the bit on top of the spire is acctualy Hull.
I think the more smaller bits is a better thing to experiment torwards than the actual huge bits.
Ide propose an odd excuse for keeping the pointy bit.
If we can add a ladder that goes even further down from the platform where the baloon is now to a 5th gun that points backwards.
Not only are you using more of the model of the spire, you are giving a defencive backwards gun. This is, highly controversial.
--- End quote ---
Better turningVery simple
Better/faster turning
--- Quote ---My comment
One of the things that has always been said about the spire is that it can turn fast. This is not true. The junker, squid, goldfish turn quicker. While Pyras or mobulas turn almost just as quick. But the turnrate is enough for getting the guns on target, but the turning does not justify the description of the spire to "Shield its engines".
Nothing wrong about the turning, but it is an option for the spire. Its just a different kind of option.
--- End quote ---
Better verticalityMake the spire be able to go up and down faster
--- Quote ---My comment
The argument for this is to better use its verticality so to better handle its body.
The spire is second best at vertical meneuverability. Pretty much the junker just that the spire has more acceleration to it which is the cause for verticality.
Another option which doesnt really need to be done since it allready is good at verticality. The body is the buff focusing on.
Mostly the argument comes from helping the spire dodge rams better. Its true and it can help.
--- End quote ---
More Hull HealthGive it More Hull Health
--- Quote ---My Comment
This kinda contrevises (if its a word) the fact that the spire is glasscannon, but with such an easy to hit hull it should still be able to stay up there with its guns. Outgunning a ship with health sacrifice.
Lets assume current hull health is that of wiki "650".
If we can raise that to 1000, The spire will have an obvious playstyle of formating crew.
For example.
Heavy hull health makes the spires gunners actually use the guns more than repairing the hull,
But if the reverse its focus to repairs, suddenly you have a very tanky but fully disabled ship.
It also helps against terrain, the spire is instagibbed by terrain mostly because of its weird body. This health can forgive that.
I actually support this idea as it compliments both competetive and uncompetetive playtype.
Competetively, there is an aware that the spire can be easily brought down, with this update, one needs extra killing power, or more accurate killing power to hit. The health also gives the spire a chance to back out into cover. It also finaly makes the spire able to tank something in a sniper match. In risky formats, it will always outgun if pointed at and will always loose health, it just wont trade as much kills. But still killed if suprised.
Uncompetetively, the ship will forgive most skill levels on the spire because it gets a second chance of being tanky enough. The spire is slow and unmoving so in most cases the spire is still able to get hit and thus still die fairly quick. Goldfishes have 1100 and even they can die quick. With the spires hitbox and body, it can still die quick but with a bit more carefull gameplay, the health will forgive most trades or mistakes. Making the difficulty less of a 4 star, and into an actual 3 star.
--- End quote ---
Tell me, do you have anything in mind?
I want to finalize the spire so i dont have to think about disabilities of the ship.
Even though the focus should fly on the squid, i believe just one more adjustment to the spire that isnt grand that can help the players flying the spire a more balanced experience.'
Also take a look at this https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,4422.0.html
SirNotlag:
I would like to see more hull health the most for the same reasons you feel its a good idea, makes the ship a little more forgiving and actually able to defend itself against a charging pyrmadon or something.
I also think the fast acceleration would be nice but for spire players but frustrating for those fighting against it as it would increase its ability to back peddle and tear you apart with 3 guns. Then again I feel that's also easily countered by using ranged weapons or getting the jump on the spire so that buff would get my second vote.
Combining these two buffs would certainly make the spire more effective and still make it unique but that could get out of hand so it might be best to buff one thing at a time and see how it works out.
Sprayer:
I'd like some kind of damage multiplicator when the spire rams enemies by dropping down on them. Dagger style.
Crafeksterty:
Hah! Problem is there is no real ease of use for it to be viable even for a skill level to utilise it.
Its like in a pyramideon you can clearly see where to ram, on a mobula you can fully see your above level.
Nothing much on the spire that gives it the opportunity to stab people easily even by design :P
Canon Whitecandle:
I firmly disagree with the vertical buff, on the grounds that the Mobula and Spire are exact opposites and giving the Spire quick vertical movement messes with that balance between the two. Furthermore, I've never had a problem juking a charge with hydrogen in any ship, let alone a Spire. so the buff would seem unnecessary anyways.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version