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Balance ideas for Pyramidion and Junker
Echoez:
I could do without the massive tree trunk behind me on a Galleon tbh, not sure how to remove that realistically tho xD
Also people should stop trying to nerf whatever they see others use the most realy, even if you nerf the Pyra (which realy doesn't need any nerfing now that Gat/Mortar ain't as ridiculously powerful as it used to be) people will pick an other ship and then you will see people using it a lot, what will you do then, nerf the next ship?
Truth be told, Pyras are overused cause they are just simple to run in a public match as well as still relatively effective in competitive, Galleons reaquire a highly skilled crew to run properly, Junkers as well. Thanks to the way damage types work in this game the Goldfish will not always be preferred since it can't reliably kill a ship by itself and when it does, it's usually not within a reasonable ammount of time. Spires are still too squishy and most people will probably give up on them after 1-2 tries of getting instagibbed, same goes with most people that try the Mobula.
eh.. I guess I should admit that the Pyra is a bit too easy, but what can you even do to make it slightly harder to run without hurting the ship a lot realy? The ship is not outstanding by any margin.. it's just easier for newbies to run than other ships so most people end up using it later as well.
Spud Nick:
The roles of the ships come into play a lot here as well. Not every ship is effective as a kill ship. Most of them operate better with a disabling build or some type of control setup. I think it is important to remember this when we talk about ship use.
Dementio:
--- Quote from: Replaceable on July 25, 2014, 05:07:29 am ---Feel free to let me know if I'm thinking about this all wrong cos I probably am.
--- End quote ---
Ok.
--- Quote from: Replaceable on July 25, 2014, 05:07:29 am ---I for one am so ready for a change to the pyra.
I am absolutely so sick of being able to predict a loadout as soon as i see a pyramidion. As well as pretty much expecting to see pyramidions whenever I play. It's getting a little bit boring to be totally honest.
--- End quote ---
That's a player choose. It is the same to say that every goldfish is a blenderfish and every junker a metajunker or how every galleon is lumberjack/flak/hades on the one side with hwacha/carro other.
--- Quote from: Replaceable on July 25, 2014, 05:07:29 am ---I do think that the hull 'sweet' spot is pretty stupid though either remove it or give the underused (UU) ships 'sweet' spots too.
--- End quote ---
Removing the sweet spot of tha pyra would nerf it. What's a pyra without speed?
But if that is removed than the galleon, mobula and squid sweet spots might be taken out too.
--- Quote from: Replaceable on July 25, 2014, 05:07:29 am ---And some thoughts about other ships.
Spires are too squishy.
Galleons are too easy to disable and the view whilst pilot is quite obstructed, they are fat and slow, but perhaps too much so?.
Squids die too easily.
Goldfish are good on the whole tbh. Just co-ordinate with your co-engi. Since the side guns are by no means vital. Leaving 2 engis to do things.
Mobulas cannot cope under fire as there is only realistically going to be one engi on hull/balloon. Making them also too squishy. (Alternately pyra can still have a gun firing and still be tanky.)
--- End quote ---
All of these depend on the engagements.
A Spire could kill a metamidion in front it. Galleons can kill a ship more reliably than a metamidion or instantly disable everything as well as simply keeping the enemy out of combat by destroying its balloon. Squids should use their manouverbility to not die (of course hwacha and carronades are basic counters as well as they are for every other ship in the game). A Goldfish not using side guns loses a lot of potential.
And Mobula, I am going to say this once and I hope I don't have to repeat myself, because it is annoying that so many people call it a "squishy" ship:
In your average match a whole lot of 1 guy stands on either hull or balloon. On certain ships not even a mallet/spanner is on the balloon but a simple pipe wrench and the balloon buff which the Mobula, in my opinion, rarely needs as well as that more repair/rerbuild power with mallet/spanner on the balloon.
In a whole lot of ships, if you start tanking with 2 guys on hull and/or balloon you a probably going to die soon anyway. In case of Mobula there is probably a gunner or buff engineer on top deck that has the power to use guns to possible disable or even kill the enemy, saving the Mobula, instead of wasting time on a silly desperate attempt to survive a second longer. If the enemy is behind the Mobula so that the guns are ineffective and the pilot cannot bring them in arc in time, he fucked up, regardless of what ship is being used.
If not both hull and balloon are dying, but only one of these than it is no different from a pyra since at least 2 guns are shooting. And nobody dares to call the inferior pyra a "squishy" ship.
Oh and, phoenix claw on Mobula is useless, for Spires and Squids optional and on Junker it depends on wether you use an asymmetrical or not and how the engagement happens. If a Junker gets surprised from behind it's probably saver to bring phoenix claw since the Junker can hold it's ground a bit with the high armor.
Echoez:
--- Quote from: Dementio on July 25, 2014, 01:48:00 pm ---And Mobula, I am going to say this once and I hope I don't have to repeat myself, because it is annoying that so many people call it a "squishy" ship
--- End quote ---
Just to clarify, at least regarding my post about people getting squished in Spires and Mobulas, I was talking about why people pick what ships they do in Pubs with randoms and it's mostly true most people get asolutely wrecked in said ships.
pandatopia:
I am unsure if a spire can outfight a pyra face to face.
Assuming the spire is double gat mortar hwacha or something, if the pyra dodges the hwacha (not terribly hard to do, with great downwards arcs on top guns and the verticalness of the spire), I feel they have a very high chance of winning the engagement.
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