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Balance ideas for Pyramidion and Junker

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-Mad Maverick-:
I wouldn't mind seeing the pyra be given an even worse turning radius but given a buff in speed and mass.... make it the lawn dart it was always meant to be

- said maverick to the surprise of no one

pandatopia:
As an engie I have to say the pyra is OP because it is too easy to repair. If you compare it to any other ship, it only requires 1.2 engies (yea, 1 main engie and 1/5th of a brain of the top engie), if that, to be at 100% sprayed and full rebuild potential. It also only has 1 part that is "hard to get to" which is the back left gun, which in 99% of pyras is a flare and isn't necessary to be up in the heat of combat.

Junker requires 3 fairly coordinated people to spray, 1 hwacha will instantly disable everything, back turning engines are critical and also the furthest away to repair/rebuild, also removing your gungineer from side guns. All in all you really have to strike a balance between tank and dps. For the pyra, its front guns shooting at all times, gungineer hits balloon once while reloading, main deck is fully repairing all the time. So tanky.

Galleons are huge and sucks for the top deck - balloon, hull, main engine are all 2-3 seconds away from each other, and your main engie has to watch balloon and hull (pilot can help with balloon, but ugh), and you lose your main engie on guns once you start taking hits.

Mobulas are...well you all know how mobulas are. Requires division of labor, and even with pilot on top gun you require a lot of running around for the top deck gunner/gungineer. Also if you ever start taking hits you're basically dead anyway.

Even goldfish are harder to repair - the main engine is way back there, and a general spread of back engie and front engie still requires a 2-3 second delay between side engines and balloon (when climbing up). Only salvation is the good hull placement. Hull drops so fast hull engie will face a sophie's choice whenever the balloon goes down.

Squids too! Everyone knows the back left engine is so neglected, the ramp to the hull will glitch out if you lag even slightly, getting you stuck on the side pipes where even a split second delay means your hull is down. Front gunner has to jump down and run around to hit hull, requiring 3 seconds again.

On pyras repairing is a joke and 100% spray uptime requires no effort, allowing you to go full offense without sacrificing any tankiness.

The layout is just too good. Having a wall behind the upstairs railing so they can't jump down (have to use ladder), and blocking off the main engine from below are ways to make it a bit tougher to use than its current layout.

EDIT: actually I thought of a better solution.

Place the balloon downstairs, way in the back above the back right engine. This might seem like a boon but, if it isn't hittable from below, will require a roundabout circuit for the downstairs engie, and you will be forced to drop a gunner from the top to come down once critical components start taking damage, limiting its full offensive potential.

Echoez:
It's a vanguard ship, it should be easy to repair.

Squids shouldn't, Galleons also shouldn't to counter-balance their firepower, Goldfishes are the easy to keep up considering you have 2 free engineers most of the time, Junkers are hard to keep together cause they are much more rewarding than a Pyra.

Pyramidion is mostly fine, I doupt it needs any changes, it's just popular cause it has a low skill floor, so people can pick it up more easily than other ships, this doesn't make it any better or unbalanced.

Frogger:
The frustrating thing about pyramidion balance is that at lower levels of play, they seem OP, but at the higher levels their weaknesses are really apparent and easily exploited by thoughtful opponents. My knee jerk reaction to calls for the pyra to be nerfed or somehow otherwise "balanced" is: no way!

pandatopia:
I don't understand what is a vanguard ship.

I think these designations are pretty meaningless; at the end of the day ships are shooting and killing each other and that's it. I mean the squid is a "scout" ship or whatever, but what is its role in a meta that just them floundering and getting blown out of the sky?

The pyra is exceptional at both killing and staying alive, and suffers no tradeoffs for doing both at the same time.

2 engies on a pyra are much better at staying alive than 2 on a goldfish. For one, the hull stays up long enough so the main deck can repair something else, and the other reason being the balloon engie is only a spin away from getting on the guns again. That isn't even taking into account pyra's exceptional ramming power.

I would say it takes an exceptional junker pilot to disable/outmaneuver a pyra to the point where its 3 guns > pyra's 2 guns + ram. Also, as soon as you take damage you've lost a gun - while on a pyra, you never lose a gun unless the balloon is down, and even then that just puts you on par with any other ship.

Similarly, 2 light guns > 2 medium guns when it comes to self sufficient killing potential...counterintuitive as that seems. You need a gat strip or  hades melt or something on the light gun on a galleon to kill a pyra before it has outmaneuvered you and is now raining gat + mortar down on you from above.

The mob and spire are so flimsy that frankly you could have everyone on a pyra on hull repairing and just ram them to death.

On the contrary, I find that most high level pilots seem to fly the pyra better than the other ships, simply because it is so good in good hands.

Again the problem isn't its overabundance of firepower or tankiness, it's its ability to maintain firepower and tankiness at all times during an engagement thanks to an amazing component layout.

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