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Design Paradigm, Game balance, and Gunner vs Engineer.

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Dementio:

--- Quote from: Richard LeMoon on May 26, 2014, 01:37:25 pm ---What about making more powerful/specialized ammo take up two gunner slots? Give everyone two ammo slots, but normal is unchangeable. The other slot can be used for the more 'mundane' ammo choices. So, as we have now, Pilot and Engineer can take take a normal and special ammo. Choosing a more powerful, specialized ammo would take up two slots. If a Pilot or Engie took one of these, it would take up both slots, giving them only one choice in combat. Since a Gunner has four slots, they could take either Normal and three special ammos, OR two special ammo and one Specialized ammos, or two Specialized ammos. I would consider Lochnagar a Specialized ammo type, along with some of the new ones.



--- End quote ---

I wouldn't want Lochnagar to take up 2 slots, but the idea sounds interesting enough.

A major problem would be the balance though. How much worth is the more powerful lesmok round? What makes it so powerful? Would specialized greased shoot too fast (e.g. greased gatling on armor)?
If balanced though, it sure can give the gunner pure damage (or whatever) superiority compared to engineers/pilots, if said two classes want to keep their default ammo.
A major disadvantage would be to sacrifice more versatility when it comes to using the gun in different situations or using more guns with different "optimal" ammo, which might be good if the "specialized" thing works.

A more UI related problem would be how to visually bring the default ammo in there and which one of the two ammo types in gunner option 2 (related to picture in quote) would be replaced? Do you have a choice wheter to sacrifice a whole slot or just default ammo?


BUT I doubt that this alone can make gunners more popular, even though I want this.

Omniraptor:
Richard, that's a really cool idea that could easily be applied to other tools (I want the spyglass to take up two slots)

However, I'm worried people would still use mostly buff gungineers because on a lot of popular guns (like gat/mortar) you only want one ammo type.

AceHangman:
I know passive skills aren't the desired idea, and this may have been suggested elsewhere, but what if gunners repaired weapons automatically when using them.  I'm not suggesting that it works continually, but only when the gun is being reloaded.  Obviously some weapons have higher hit points than others and finding a good balance on the amount repaired would require testing.

Just for example purpose, say gunner autoheals... 20 hp per .5 seconds while the gun is reloading.  This means on Gatlin guns, you would heal very little, but on say, the Hwachi Rockey launcher (about 8 seconds reload) you could heal a respectable amount (and those things take a long time to fix because of their high hit points when you have to hop off.)

As I said, the numbers would need tweaking and it would  have to be determined if it's on ongoing effect, meaning it occurs each time unit you are on the gun while it's reloading or if you could actually start reloading and jump off to boost the repair with tools as long as you can hop back on before the reload is complete (similar to how loading special ammo works now, just as long as you're in place before that last click).  With this method, the game would just determine the total reload time and if the gunner was in place just assign the repair points.

The second methods a bit abusable since an engineer or anyone could just set a gun to reload and as long as a gunner hopped in the seat in time it would be a free boost of repair.  Better in my opinion to have it cycle during the reload process only when a gunner is manning it.

I think this would be a fair buff without stepping on engineers' toes or overshadowing their talents.  Certainly if flying around without enemies nearby you could start reloading and thus repair the weapon but unlike a constant auto repair, there are actually times when you get caught with your pants down while reloading when an enemy comes out of nowhere and your pilot is yelling, 'Take the shot!' and you just have to sit and wait out the 6 seconds.

Also, it won't stop the need for helpful engineers since it has no effect on fixing destroyed weapons or being knocked off a gun with more than 8 fire charges.

UmmonTL:
I didn't manage to read the whole thread but as a fairly new player I wanted to comment. My suggestion would be two improvements to the way a gunner reloads:

* If he reloads, whatever ammo he has selected is loaded even if he jumps off the gun unless someone else jumps on it.
* If he's on a gun with a full clip he can very quickly switch the ammo type instead of waiting for the full reload timeMy intention is for a gunner to actually make use of the different ammo types effectively and with new ammo types being introduced it should help to make the gunners versatility better than the gungineers narrow focus. More passive ammo effects would also make it interesting to have a gunner run around the ship reloading all guns when there is no immediate target to shoot at. The big problem then would only be the carrying capacity, more ammo types means to utilize them a gunner should probably get more gunner slots as well.
There would still need to be other changes, I liked the idea of the buffhammer increasing non-damage stats on the gun. Having better ammo that takes up more slots could be good as well but again, the gunner would need more slots.

Crafeksterty:
For the idea of a tool taking 2 spots away, i want that applied on Pheonix claw, buff hammer and Greased. :P

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