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Fellow Ex-Gunners Of Icarus Lend Me Your Ears!
Moriarty:
I don't know if the issue can be corrected by changing relatively small numbers, to stay relevant in the current and foreseeable environment class might need retooling.
This is of course just my take on the situation; but ever since the patch made damage dependent on repair, gunners have actually become an active liability, detracting from overall performance of a given team.
I would back this statement up by saying look at the ducks (paddling) no gunners and I bet we'll see the gents change to Gungineers in the next cogs match as well.
I suppose a goldfish could support a gunner but it would be just that 'supported', requiring the services of an understanding Engi who has time on their hands.
BdrLineAzn:
I also feel that the Gunner class is out of love a little. But, as many others has stated, I like a Gunner on my ship. Reason being is that with the multiple ammo loadouts, if I have a really good gun, he or she will know how to maximise the dps on a gun or multiple of guns. Even if I may have a recently joined Gunner comes upon my ship and doesn't bring the optimal loadout, if the ammo is useful, they cam still do quite more damage then a single ammo Engineer.
Which I go on to my second point. As an Engineer myself, there may be hardly no time where I can get on a gun and start shooting. The majority of the time has me running around fixing different components. If I have time or an opportunity present itself, with the single ammo type, mostly I'm limited to one gun where I can increase the dps of it. Even as a Gungineer and spend more time around the weapons, with one ammo type, you can't out shoot the Gunner in dps.
All in all, we must shed new light on this Class as there are many new people who doesn't understand the importance of the Gunner. I may not have any ideas on how to improve the Gunner, but I agree that they should make a come back.
Pickle:
I think someone's confusing the Cogs with the wider metagame..
The Cogs is a relatively unimportant part of the game with only a touching relevance to the game played by most of the players. If one or two teams in the Cogs choose to experiment with all-Engineer crews, this is merely the hint of a slight problem for part of the player population. It's not a doom-and-gloom-Gunners-have-ceased-to-have-a-purpose warning.
I'll hazard a guess that there were significantly more Gunners than Junkers on the team sheets.
Moriarty:
Oh? And how would you characterise it when Engies are generally better behind a gun (in my view anyway) than the gunning class or at the *very* least objectively as good.
It may not be as obvious as the Junker/Spire issue but it's disingenuous to make the comparison between the two problems in any case. I mean on what basis would you compare the lack of distinction between 2 of 3 playable classes to the rather large distinction between the ship designs. Apples and oranges.
Squash:
So here's why Gunners suck;
1. Engineers pick three below, gunners pick one
a) Buff Hammers provide a 30% bonus to damage.
b) Spanners rebuild the fastest.
c) Rubber Malletts can keep your gun at 100% health, critically important now that gun health relates to effective output.
d) Chem Spray almost completely removes the need for heatsink.
2. Gunners get three ammo types.
a) Most guns only ever need one ammo type regardless of situation.
b) Even if responsible for two guns, most guns share a common ammo type synergy.
3. Engineers are flexible, when they aren't shooting they can repair engines, buff the hull, ect.
4. Gunners are fundamentally dependent on engineers, and cannot operate a gun without adult supervision. See Point 2.
Here are scenarios you can get away with a Gunner.
-Manticore or Carronade Goldfish. The Manticore appreciates heavy clip until point blank, when burst is valuable. The Carronade would benefit from heavy/lesmok at range and then charged, burst, or even lochnager closer.
Counterpoint: This same task can be achieved with two engineers each bringing a different ammo type, and a small amount of coordination. The benefit of this is the person on the gun doesn't have to be babysitted.
-Lower Deck Galleon with different guns on the left side than the right. Two different medium guns often requires preloading with two different ammo types.
Counterpoint: But usually there's a common ammo both guns like. The other person downstairs with you surely wouldn't appreciate having to keep rebuilding/repairing/extinguishing (pick two) the gunner's gun.
So why do people still play Gunner?
-Because if you play Gunner in a casual game, people will give you a gun. I do it too, because off a gun a Gunner is completely useless. But that doesn't mean they're more useful on a gun than an engineer.
-That's it. The above reason. That's it. That's the only good reason to play a Gunner now.
How should Gunner be fixed?
This isn't an RPG (outside of Burning Skies), we don't need static value bonuses some classes get over others. Here's my suggestions.
-Change the Gunner from 3 Ammo types and 1 Repair tool to 2 Ammo types and 2 Repair tools.
-Give the Gunner access to unique ammo types. Can you imagine how different the game would be if only Gunners got Lesmok or Heavy Clip?
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