Author Topic: Anime Discussions?  (Read 173538 times)

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #75 on: January 02, 2015, 03:48:18 pm »
Magical girl shows...



I thank Japan for those 2 years where both summers were back to back either magical girl shows or all girl cast animes. They were the years when Naruto filler, even in its most mundane, moronic, horrific form, was actually quality anime and gave you a momentary reprieve from the nightmare. Every summer since I've cringed with fingers crossed till I see the lineup. Its like a giant zombie you forgot to double tap...all you can do is say "please stay dead, please stay dead, please stay dead, please stay dead, please stay dead, please stay dead..." I can't believe they got away with 2 years of that.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #76 on: January 03, 2015, 11:18:56 am »
Magical girl shows...



I thank Japan for those 2 years where both summers were back to back either magical girl shows or all girl cast animes. They were the years when Naruto filler, even in its most mundane, moronic, horrific form, was actually quality anime and gave you a momentary reprieve from the nightmare. Every summer since I've cringed with fingers crossed till I see the lineup. Its like a giant zombie you forgot to double tap...all you can do is say "please stay dead, please stay dead, please stay dead, please stay dead, please stay dead, please stay dead..." I can't believe they got away with 2 years of that.

But but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERpK-7K70ws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY6QCX0HPxg
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 11:21:52 am by Ceresbane »

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #77 on: January 03, 2015, 04:08:56 pm »
I saw cardcaptors off and on decades ago. Wasn't really a fan but watched it as it came before another show I was more into. But that was before Japan was conquered by Moe. If it was redone for today, it would be ultra moe, with all female cast, heavy yuri undertones, and lots of groping.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #78 on: January 03, 2015, 06:12:05 pm »
I saw cardcaptors off and on decades ago. Wasn't really a fan but watched it as it came before another show I was more into. But that was before Japan was conquered by Moe. If it was redone for today, it would be ultra moe, with all female cast, heavy yuri undertones, and lots of groping.

Not gonna deny that does occur. But mostly on stuff thats got a tiny ass budget.

And err... you are aware clamp still makes this stuff... only less lesbian and more gay (they made their break via the doujin market making yaoi).

Really gotta take my advice on the whole, don't read via genre. Only by execution. Many great works are in genres you seemingly hate. Even the moe stuff you hate can appeal to you if the right author uses them. And like I said genre is a very subjective thing.

take this show for example.

Is this a magical girl show because it has magical people in it?
http://www.animefreak.tv/watch/rokujouma-no-shinryakusha-online
Is it an outright ecchi/harem series merely because the main guy is surrounded by a female supporting cast?
Does the lack of active plot progression (as in, an outright antagonist), make this in actuality slice of life despite the non-mundane features of it?


Is the legend of korra a magical girl series? it's definitely a girl with magical powers, fighting bad guys with magic.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #79 on: January 03, 2015, 09:22:49 pm »
Since 07 I've probably seen more anime than most folks outside of otakus. I even made some clear otakus in my Japanese courses question what I had seen cause they more specialized in watching certain genres only. I branched into just about every genre. Even genres I traditionally didn't like, Mechas, I branched into. Then I went back and covered a lot of the classics. When you go back and then go forwards, you really can see the shifts in styles and storytelling in Japan. Things tend to go in batches. Every few years, there is a shift. Each shift tends to be led by a major genre defining anime which everyone has to copy or improve. Trouble is, I see a lot of stuff that gets rehashed which is usually terrible.

Shinryakusha was more of a harem. There was a single magical girl character in it and she was a complete dunce, which was awesome. The series was more comedy centered. Even when a nemesis comes out, its still never serious. Lot of genre crossing mixed in. I watched it through, it had it's moments. I'd watch a season 2 of it but it wouldn't be the top of my list.

I don't hate moe completely, I just hate when it is used in certain things or they rely completely on it to get viewers. Some moe characters are fine but when they cross the line and make a whole series about it, then its painful to watch cause all they can do is spout trope after trope.

I watched part of a season of Korra and lost interest. Episodes were predictable and gave me a disney/westernized entertainment feel. When I start feeling like I'm watching western tripe, I walk away. I've had a film as lit class so I know all the tricks and stories they like to rehash over and over.

All female cast animes are ones where the main cast and much of the supporting are all female. Harems still have the main protagonist as a male and usually have male cast members mixed in, if only just to be antagonists or supporting roles. Usually one serves as the jerk or really perverted one to make the protagonist look better. Bodacious Space Pirates, Symphogear, and Last Exile: Silver Wing would be all female casts. Now I originally wasn't opposed to this. But taking those 3 series...I can give you the clear problem with all of them.

Simply, they're all the same story. Even if different in characters and structure, its all the same. These type animes tend to have girls dealing with war and its always the same story. "Lets love, not fight, then get in maid outfits and look cute for each other." Then when you have a character which acts more realistic, they suddenly consider her the greatest evil in the world. Last Exile has Dyan. While the main cast is spouting utter idealistic nonsense all the time, she goes and kills one of the antagonists. The next scene, she is seen as the villain. When that moment hit, I practically cheered for her to just get fed up and off the rest of the cast. She was the only true to herself in the series.

Bodacious Space Pirates started brilliantly, then it just went to moe hell. Everyone in cosplay, everyone as maids, forget realism and make ships which resist inertia. The show which built up and made you think they'd actually do some space pirating, turns into a parade through monotony as the cast just goes from trope to trope till the end. Lets not fight, lets love and put on pirate performances because we've got a warship and we're bound by a contract to only attack as a show! Doing that means we're pirates! ZOMG!!! It is then you realize, why are we watching this show when all the awesome stuff is going on elsewhere in the universe?

Symphogear, again, awesome design and some good music. Forget that its more of a magical girl series as you watch it. Then the idealistic tripe comes in and everyone is hugging with yuri undertones. Bad guys do horrific evil stuff and wipe out lots of people then the protagonists are all...no lets be nice and kind and beat them with the power of music and love! I actually saw both seasons. S1 is better only cause S2 really lays it on heavy. How many times must they let a bad guy escape and endanger people before they finally shoot him? But they never do.

During the time these shows aired, there was over a dozen shows just like it. Some much, much, worse. It was a long 12 weeks till those seasons were over.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 09:26:16 pm by Gilder Unfettered »

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2015, 02:03:55 am »
I swear to god, every single anime that spouts idealistic shit gives the MCs a bajillion oppurtunities to MAN THE FUCK UP AND SHOOT HIM IN THE FACE!  Follow in Kiritsugu's footsteps: Shoot your dog so you can get to the villain and kill him either in cold blood or with a fight, and if you fight, pull out all the stops, use all of your resources right from the beginning, and use every dirty trick you can think of.  Either that, or save your dog and GTFO before he goes for you.  Take your pick, because any other option is wrong.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #81 on: January 04, 2015, 03:26:01 am »
Yep, I've seen soo many shows where that happens. Again, usually all female cast shows. Its like women in the mangaka minds have to perpetually be kind and loving, opposed to fighting.

Man, someone get those mangakas onto a paintball field with real life women. In 5 mins they'll be keeled over, barfing their lunch out after being shot in the balls, and begging to be put out of their misery. Women who get serious are scary. They fight dirty and they pull no punches. My mom was a PE teacher for decades at a rough school. Fights would happen and such but when the fight was between girls, the male teachers booked it out of there. She used to tell me, one thing for certain when girls fought...there would be hair pulled, blood drawn, and scratches all over if lucky. If there is something that could be a weapon nearby, they'll use it without a second thought.

I am a bit disappointed with Cross Ange this season. Yes its an all girl cast anime, but I gave it a shot because it had a brutal synopsis and interesting mecha. There was no idealistic nut protagonist. She gets thrown in hell and gets a bunch of her allies killed before she finally starts to toughen up. Then she gets awesome. But even despite it all, she got a little wishy washy as the truth has been revealed. I had her pegged as siding with the dragons and wiping out humanity, but she's kinda hesitating when she should be rearing to go. I know its for plot and story development but after the huge build up Ange had to suddenly hesitate....sigh.

Still, a good show. If during those 2 years, there was multiple shows like it, I'd probably give more female cast shows a chance before dismissing. I'd like to see Fan Fam Fam look up at the corpse of an ally she just got killed then watch the ally's glass eye fall out of her socket in front of her. Put that in Last Exile...no more idealistic nonsense Fan Fam Fam...Dyan mode activate...someone's gonna bleed.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 03:27:40 am by Gilder Unfettered »

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #82 on: January 04, 2015, 11:35:28 am »
Hmm... See, I've never seen girls fight, and when I 'fight', I follow the set rules.  But when I fight?  I'm the dirtiest cheater you'll ever meet, and I don't hesitate to beat the shit out of you while you're on the ground.  There's a saying I like; Don't throw the first punch, but throw the second, and make sure it's the last.

Now, a little bit of idealism is A-OK at the beginning, because then they can lose it, and those scenes are usually pretty good.  Hell, I'm OK with them keeping some of them, but learning that you can't always uphold them.  To use the Fate series again, Shirou.  He wants to save everyone, but he knows he can't.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #83 on: January 04, 2015, 12:11:10 pm »
This talk makes me want to re-ignite my desire to be a mangaka (no one reads books... and those that do want to read porn).

Though in those days in the 90s and early 00s, it wasn't hard to do better than them. There are awesome series coming all the time now, with the modern writer's sensibilities.

Tropes still exist because the 10s is what I like to call the era of nostalgia, where cultural stagnation is starting to move towards that forecast cultural singularity. Purely because the consumption of culture (as well as spread) is so exponential.
As such with the overwhelming wealth of culture people look backwards to what they know. And ironic writing is the popular thing.


e.g. Game of thrones-a world of magic and fantasy... that lost the magic and fantasy... making it a pretentious period drama that is structured like a soap drama.

Its eastenders in a fantasy setting.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #84 on: January 04, 2015, 06:33:22 pm »
Now, a little bit of idealism is A-OK at the beginning, because then they can lose it, and those scenes are usually pretty good.  Hell, I'm OK with them keeping some of them, but learning that you can't always uphold them.  To use the Fate series again, Shirou.  He wants to save everyone, but he knows he can't.

Totally...some of the anime has the protagonist whether it be male or female, just holding onto ideals. I can dig strong characters which can do that, but when you have all characters doing it...it gets old. Finally watched Transformers Age of Extinction the other night. Went in with low expectations and was surprised how much I enjoyed it. The fact that Optimus finally gets off the high horse and just is like...ya know what humans, you're screwed. He regains some of his ideals but he finally won't sit by and let a bad guy kill a friend. His ideals finally shift to realizing, you can't save everyone, some people just have to be stopped.

One of the big reasons I hate Code Geass with a passion is not just because everyone dies and it gets to the point they kill characters just for the sake of killing them, but the fact that it takes forever for them to finally kill anyone who deserves it. To me its a waste of time. All the people who have the ability to stop the madness are too stuck up with ideals to do it. So they butcher a few more characters they spent forever building up.

Argued with Qwerty over some of this and Brick I still argue with about Eva. He's of the party that thinks Eva is one of the greatest animes ever made. I'm of the group which totally despise it. The fact the had to redo the ending multiple times and then finally redo the entire series just is a testament to how messed up it was. The protagonist is just a little whiny brat. Similar to Eureka 7 cept I was able to appreciate E7 after I saw it a 2nd time. The first time I watched it I almost stopped before it got good cause I just couldn't stand Renton's whining mixed with idealistic crap. Whine about killing over and over when he finally realizes hes killing people in mechs...cowboy to buck up you little brat...seriously! He's nuts for Eureka yet hes not willing to do what it takes to protect her.

Sigh, at least Ao you finally saw Renton grown up more. But that series had it's own issues.

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #85 on: January 04, 2015, 08:06:46 pm »
Shinji is, was, and forever will be the whinest bitch in all of fiction.  NGE had the potential to be really good, but some of the shit they pulled...  Also, that stupid conscious singularity thing was, well... stupid!  No offense to Brick, of course.

Well, let me amend my previous statement.  Shinji Ikari is, was, and forever will be the whiniest bitch in all of fiction, except here: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3886999/48/Shinji-and-Warhammer40k

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #86 on: January 04, 2015, 08:34:13 pm »
You've just gained +5000 Gilder rep points!

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #87 on: January 04, 2015, 08:44:23 pm »
Why?  For insulting Shinji Ikari, knowing about Shinji and WH40k, giving an unbiased opinion on NGE without leaning to either extreme...?

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #88 on: January 04, 2015, 09:12:21 pm »
trying to think of a more annoying male protagonist... (usagi/serena from sailor moon definitely even worst).


Oh wait... found him.

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Anime Discussions?
« Reply #89 on: January 04, 2015, 09:54:02 pm »
I didn't actually mind him so much in the beginning.  Like, Wave arc.  So much POTENTIAL, SQUANDERED!