Info > Feedback and Suggestions
Call for Gunner Ammo Ideas
redria:
(Don't want to push, or sidetrack, but i suddenly really like the impact idea and this thread begs for discussion on it - last post unless people ask for more)
I ran some numbers and based everything off of the power of a single mine. If you have any concerns, run your ship into a single mine and see what that does to you, then consider proportions.
Damage modifier: 0.2
Clip size: 0.7
Gun deals only primary damage, losing the ability to inflict any secondary damage it has.
Primary damage is converted to impact damage.
Per clip, light carronade easily wins, dealing 68% of a single mine's damage per clip. Gatling deals 56%, Hwacha 47%, and Heavy Carronade 45%. All others are below 40% per clip.
Only 4 weapons deal less than 20% damage per clip: banshee (12%), mercury (10%), harpoon, and flare gun (1% lol).
Per shot (for immediate knock-back effects), Heavy carronade loads up 45%, making it easily the best pusher. Heavy flak falls in at 20% (along with mines) per shot before carronade shows back up, along with merc and artemis.
With modifiers in consideration, The most possible damage to deal is 185 to balloon, 154 to hull, 62 to component, or 82 to armor per clip of the light carronade.
I don't know how AOE would come into play (if at all) for how impact damage works when hitting multiple components.
I ran numbers for allowing in secondary damage only and the lumberjack runs away with the show, dealing 160% damage per clip. The next closest was hwacha at 84%, meaning dropping primary damage and applying only secondary damage makes the ammo OP on one gun to the point of non-viability.
I don't have numbers comparing reload times or buffs, and it's on excel, not a google doc i can share, but if it has real interest I can make one. ^.^
The ammo type turns any gun into a utility weapon, and works best on close range weapons (preventing snipers from spamming knock-back). With the heavy nerf of the damage modifier, the guns don't deal massive damage by any means. The guns become effective against armor, hull, and balloon, but can't do enough damage per clip to be truly dangerous in terms of damage (can be nearly effortlessly denied by an engineer making a simple repair. This is not an ammo type your engineer would take - it is next to useless as a singular ammo type. However, a gunner being able to load it in when the opportunity arises, or when their own weapon is not in effective range, or when their weapon can't fire effectively (inside arming times, or firing a gatling down at a ship trying to balloon-block the shots) suddenly becomes much more desirable. A single mine can be devastating when it explodes, knocking off arcs, throwing ships into and out of situations of danger or advantage, etc. The ability to apply that pressure at any time would be incredibly tempting to any pilot, meaning gunners with their multiple ammo types are very tempting.
Thanks for your patience.
Milevan Faent:
--- Quote from: redria on May 21, 2014, 12:43:09 pm ---(Don't want to push, or sidetrack, but i suddenly really like the impact idea and this thread begs for discussion on it - last post unless people ask for more)
I ran some numbers and based everything off of the power of a single mine. If you have any concerns, run your ship into a single mine and see what that does to you, then consider proportions.
Damage modifier: 0.2
Clip size: 0.7
Gun deals only primary damage, losing the ability to inflict any secondary damage it has.
Primary damage is converted to impact damage.
Per clip, light carronade easily wins, dealing 68% of a single mine's damage per clip. Gatling deals 56%, Hwacha 47%, and Heavy Carronade 45%. All others are below 40% per clip.
Only 4 weapons deal less than 20% damage per clip: banshee (12%), mercury (10%), harpoon, and flare gun (1% lol).
Per shot (for immediate knock-back effects), Heavy carronade loads up 45%, making it easily the best pusher. Heavy flak falls in at 20% (along with mines) per shot before carronade shows back up, along with merc and artemis.
With modifiers in consideration, The most possible damage to deal is 185 to balloon, 154 to hull, 62 to component, or 82 to armor per clip of the light carronade.
I don't know how AOE would come into play (if at all) for how impact damage works when hitting multiple components.
I ran numbers for allowing in secondary damage only and the lumberjack runs away with the show, dealing 160% damage per clip. The next closest was hwacha at 84%, meaning dropping primary damage and applying only secondary damage makes the ammo OP on one gun to the point of non-viability.
I don't have numbers comparing reload times or buffs, and it's on excel, not a google doc i can share, but if it has real interest I can make one. ^.^
The ammo type turns any gun into a utility weapon, and works best on close range weapons (preventing snipers from spamming knock-back). With the heavy nerf of the damage modifier, the guns don't deal massive damage by any means. The guns become effective against armor, hull, and balloon, but can't do enough damage per clip to be truly dangerous in terms of damage (can be nearly effortlessly denied by an engineer making a simple repair. This is not an ammo type your engineer would take - it is next to useless as a singular ammo type. However, a gunner being able to load it in when the opportunity arises, or when their own weapon is not in effective range, or when their weapon can't fire effectively (inside arming times, or firing a gatling down at a ship trying to balloon-block the shots) suddenly becomes much more desirable. A single mine can be devastating when it explodes, knocking off arcs, throwing ships into and out of situations of danger or advantage, etc. The ability to apply that pressure at any time would be incredibly tempting to any pilot, meaning gunners with their multiple ammo types are very tempting.
Thanks for your patience.
--- End quote ---
So, if I understand you right, you're theorizing (should this ammo be made) based on the damage being reduced by 80%, and the clip by 30%? Just want to make sure I understand how you're working this out. I'm liking what I'm reading otherwise. Maybe, if nothing else, we could get it in the dev app just to see what happens when we make random weapons deal impact damage as an experiment.
redria:
--- Quote from: Milevan Faent on May 21, 2014, 01:27:49 pm ---So, if I understand you right, you're theorizing (should this ammo be made) based on the damage being reduced by 80%, and the clip by 30%?
--- End quote ---
Correct. A normal 100 piercing damage slug would instead deal 20 impact damage.
A normal 100 ammo clip would instead have 70 ammo. (and a 2 shot clip would instead only have 1 shot due to rounding, similar to lesmok)
Milevan Faent:
--- Quote from: redria on May 21, 2014, 01:35:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: Milevan Faent on May 21, 2014, 01:27:49 pm ---So, if I understand you right, you're theorizing (should this ammo be made) based on the damage being reduced by 80%, and the clip by 30%?
--- End quote ---
Correct. A normal 100 piercing damage slug would instead deal 20 impact damage.
A normal 100 ammo clip would instead have 70 ammo. (and a 2 shot clip would instead only have 1 shot due to rounding, similar to lesmok)
--- End quote ---
About the only odd element I can see to this is flamers with impact damage XD
Crafeksterty:
--- Quote from: awkm on May 21, 2014, 11:18:02 am ---- Pilots tools can only be used on helm (aside from spotting, which are the only unique cases)
- Engineers tools can only be used while running around and on components
- Gunner ammo can only be used on a gun, while on a gun
--- End quote ---
Then why not instant effects on selection?
Ive made this thread few days ago, and it was on addons. (Dont know if you remember).
At first, i tought of it as a tool outside the gun, applied on the gun.
But then one can eliminate the need for tool model, effect and animation if you simply make it...
An instantaneus effect on selection while on the gun. Much like on the helm.
So with an ammo loaded, you then select over to a non-ammo gunner tool while on the gun, much like on the helm.
And those are addons that slightly help the weapon from being detrimental off of the ammo drawbacks, or strengthening the buffs.
I dont know how this cannot be done, all it needs is icons as a selection. And ofcourse as new gunner selections.
Applying buff hammer buff to the gun is no different from this, just that this addon buff is active whenever the gunner has it selected on the gun.
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