Info > Feedback and Suggestions
Call for Gunner Ammo Ideas
Dementio:
I am tempted to suggest new engineer tools that are only a good choice for gunners, for some reason.
A new sort of pipe wrench that is best for repairing/rebuilding guns, but has barely to any effect on balloon/hull/engines, or something. Something that an engineer would never take, but a gunner could drive immense use from. The problem is that the gunner can only have 1 engineering tool and a tool that reacts differently on every component it hits, might require too much coding/effort...
awkm:
RE: Instant/Passive Effects
Yeah, it fits in the overall design paradigm of when what skills are used when. However, the other thing to note is that while it is a Gunner item, it behaves differently from ammo. Now, something that's in the same class of items (the Gunner slots) doesn't do the same thing as the others. So far, the only exception are the two Spotting tools... they're Pilot tools but are used while running around.
In the case of an instant/passive gunner skill that is activated while on a gun, the item doesn't force a reload. Having this item activated will also produce a strange interaction with reload. Under the current reload mechanics, you will reload to whatever ammo you have selected. However, I won't necessarily have an ammo selected now. What do I reload? It would make sense to reload whatever was previously in the gun if I have that ammo... but how do I know what was in the gun? You can see where this goes. Not that we can't solve the issue, it's already steepening the uphill battle that we're trying to fight in making choosing Gunners more desirable than Gungineers.
A lot of the difficult issues end up being clarity of behavior and how to tell players what is going on in a way that is clean (UI) and intuitive. Intuitive and clean usually mean as simple as possible.
RE: Gunner focused repair tool
Such an item would be obviously great for a gunner who normally just needs a repair tool to fix their own gun (engineers already have a lot to worry about). However, then this selection skews heavily towards collapsing the decision space of "What engineer tool do I pick as a gunner?" The decision space is currently quite skewed where users will most likely take Pipe or Spanner.
However, there's always the Engineer and how this kind of tool will affect their loadout decision making. For Engineers, it becomes a little more unclear... maybe that's a good thing.
Just to make it clear, I'm not shutting anything down outright. I want to let everyone know all the considerations that need to be taken into account before things are set into motion, and then to steer the feedback into a direction that is more immediately actionable. There are numerous good ideas so far that I'm working into this big change.
GeoRmr:
As I've said previously adding new ammo types is cool, however it will not affect the desirability of gunners. Instead of having literal 'passives' that are activated while mounted on a gun, make them work like chem-spray and be pre applied, this shouldn't cause a coding nightmare by affecting the reload mechanic.
awkm:
Where do I equip this Gunner Chem Spray? In a gunner slot?
That breaks paradigm and introduces behavior confusion.
You're right that it'll be little to be very little coding... but how do we display it to the user? It's a running-around tool only available in the gunner slot? That's weird, breaks paradigm.
What if it's an Engineer tool? But then why would a gunner bring it? It's more useful to bring something to repair the gun if you need to.
Then the question is: why is the engineer more desirable? Maybe the answer is Buff Hammer's effect on guns. Maybe we'll look at dealing with that.
GeoRmr:
--- Quote from: awkm on May 21, 2014, 04:24:52 pm ---Where do I equip this Gunner Chem Spray? In a gunner slot?
That breaks paradigm and introduces behavior confusion.
You're right that it'll be little to be very little coding... but how do we display it to the user? It's a running-around tool only available in the gunner slot? That's weird, breaks paradigm.
What if it's an Engineer tool? But then why would a gunner bring it? It's more useful to bring something to repair the gun if you need to.
Then the question is: why is the engineer more desirable? Maybe the answer is Buff Hammer's effect on guns. Maybe we'll look at dealing with that.
--- End quote ---
Yes, In a gunner slot. We're all comfortable with the pilot tool exceptions, I don't think people would be that confused by having some gunner 'tools'.
Edit: I strongly feel that this would be the best way to go. Maybe you could introduce some engineer passives that aren't tools to even it out. (that, or you should probably remove the spyglass and range finder from the game)
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