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Call for Gunner Ammo Ideas

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SirNotlag:
Explosive ammo: adds a small explosion on impact which carries the secondary damage type of the weapon, -5% fire rate, and -10% damage ( idea would be for weapons that don't normally have explosions to get them such as the chain gun or carronade so it makes it easier for them to break components since their secondary damage is shatter and they fire multiple inaccurate shots).

Delayed ammo: increases the range of the projectiles but not the speed at which they travel, -25% clip size, +15% weapon damage, -10% fire rate, +10% arming time

Metal Slug ammo: removes the secondary damage and adds it to the primary, -20% projectile speed, -15% projectile lift

Unstable ammo: reverse of the slug ammo removes primary damage and converts it to the secondary damage type, +10% projectile speed, +20% explosive AOE, -20% clip size, -15% fire rate.

not sure if these last 2 could be done or if they'd even be balanced, but hey just an idea :D.

P.S. Honestly i feel it would only be fair that the person who thought of the idea for a weapon type should at least get a say it what it is going to be called, Yes that means id probably try to have it named after myself or my avatar cause I am vain like that  ;D

Sammy B. T.:
Acid rounds

Lower projectile speed
Lower rate of fire
Smaller clip
Each consecutive hit on a component from the same clip does more damage

Myroc:

--- Quote from: awkm on May 19, 2014, 02:08:20 pm ---This is a call for new Gunner Ammo that you think will make you choose the 3 slots for ammo that a Gunner has over the 1 slot that the others have.
--- End quote ---

Normal Rounds.

...that's it. That's the suggestion. Making gunners more viable in comparison to engineers isn't going to happen simply by giving them a new ammo type. You're just going to see engineers run around with that ammo type instead. The problem is this: Repairing recquires you to have a lot of different tools to be useful, but gunning only requires one single ammo type to be operating at optimal conditions. It is very, very easy to get away with only ever using one particular round type on a particular gun, at the very least for light guns; Extra ammo types are redundant 99% of the time. Extra tools are never redundant. Not to mention that in the earlier case, that person can still operate any other gun at normal conditions.

Fixing the problem of gunners being inferior to engineers is only going to happen if either A: Make carrying extra ammo types equally as useful as carrying extra tools or B: Restricting the ammo types that engineers can carry. If normal ammo type wasted a slot, you would either have engineers give up their ammo type in order to be flexible, or focus on one particular type of ammo and more or less restrict themselves to guns where they would be useful, which is not currently the case. Default ammo is the pipe wrench of ammo types. It's an average tool that works well for everything, while not excelling in any particular area. You're currently giving it to everyone for free. Change that and gunners are going to become a lot more viable. (Alternatively, go the opposite direction and give everyone pipe wrenches for free. It's likely going to devastate the game as it stands, but it would at least make gunners and engineers more equal.)

Goldenglade:
^^^^ agreed

Deltajugg:

--- Quote from: Myroc on May 19, 2014, 06:16:10 pm ---Normal Rounds.

--- End quote ---

This.
So much this.

Why did noone say that before? o.O
Why did I not say that before, thinking about it today?

I was thinking about it earlier today (all the hive minds), and how would the execution look like, for we'll end up with a problem of not having a basic ammo at the very start of the game and reload mechanics would have to change a little bit if there's no basic ammo for a gun to switch to if the user isn't holding it with the correct ammo. I propose all guns to be empty at the very start of the game, for them to reload only by clicking the R button, and for the ammo to be applied based on the ammo used by the last person, something like "marking" the weapon with the ammo of the user that was the last to set it, so it will reload with this ammo type every time until someone changes the "mark" for a different ammo. That's of course a change that would probably take a while, but it seems like the best solution to make gunners viable. For as Myroc said, you're basically giving everyone a free "pipe wrench" in the shape of the normal ammo clip that has quite universal purpose.

I would even go one step further, for even that won't solve the problem for the guns that are very good with only one ammo type (merc,flamer,gat and so on), not to mention the "normal ammo" idea while being really good, it may be denied for the time being, for it'll probably be quite alot of code work.
One of the reasons there's not much purpose for the gunner is that not only engineer can repair AND use guns effectively, but he also can bring buffhammer, which replaces most of the ammo types in their effectiveness, or gets rid of many flaws of certain ammo types, denying the trade-off for its benefits, and that is basically what hurts gunner the most. Why would you want a class that can use different ammo types for different purposes in situations, when one ammo type engie can bring is good 85% of the time, and more powerful than any of the tree gunner can bring if the gun gets a buff?
For that reason I would like to see buffhammer changed for guns. Reduce the damage buff for them, so a buffed ammo will be more relevant in its effective area than unbuffed one, but so it won't overpower the idea behind bringing more ammo types for different situations. At the same time, I'd also like to see the reduction of the amount of hits needed to buff a gun.

Those are my ideas at least. I tried really hard to come up with some kind of ammo that could help resolve the issue of gunners being hardly relevant compared to +20% damage buff, but as Myroc said, people will simply switch to that ammo an an engineer and the issue will stay there. Whatever ideas we could come up with, I think that to balance-out gunners we need some new mechanic changes rather than simply new ammo type.

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