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Fire Extinguisher - your opinion?

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Deltajugg:

--- Quote from: Alistair MacBain on May 14, 2014, 02:23:37 am ---A flamer has such a high rof and such a high ignition chance that you will have a fire on a component again once the immunity runs of. Thus rendering you to constantly camp a component which will stop you from doing anything else until you are out of range for the flamer.

--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: vyew on May 14, 2014, 10:01:07 am ---Exactly why you need the chem spray. Using the extinguisher to keep a single important component from burning down means you cannot turn your attention to anything else.

--- End quote ---
Thing is, in many situations it's not that big of a bother, like on a balloon side of a pyramidion for example. You can quite often focus on extinguishing the balloon without any problem until enemy armor's down, then mount the mortar, kill them, that way dealing with future flamer problems. On a junker, for example, top deck engineer can spray balloon, side engines AND the hull, while front engie can keep the fire extinguisher in times of need, like in case of lower deck burning. Hull is sprayed either way, but you are also prepared for other threats.



--- Quote from: vyew on May 14, 2014, 10:01:07 am ---The only way is perfect chem spray. Damned if you miss a chem spray, just as dammed if you futilely attempt to extinguish fires all over the ship, only to have another 10 stacks on the first component you extinguished.

--- End quote ---
That's the thing, even perfect spraying is not enough anymore. Let's say you're fighting against gat/mortar and carro/flamer pyras. At one point you'll be left with a choice, either protect yourself from enemy mortar by using a mallet on the hull and keeping you alive, or protect yourself from the incoming flamer by re-spraying before the previous hull freeze runs off. Either way you're screwed, but incoming flamestacks rising on your hull can be dealt with quickly by an engineer from the balloon with fire ext after mallet cooldown is over. Of course, whether or not it'll be effective depends on how long the previous chemspray freeze will hold on the hull, will flamestacks deal more damage during up to 9 seconds than what you managed to repair with a mallet, but that way you dealt with gatling threat, and in most of the cases the intervention of a second engineer will save you from the flamestacks as well.
This actually has even been abused by Bubbles himself on one of the DevMatches after the patch, where he decided to take a Pyramidion with a gat/flamer, and it REALLY was a bother, especially with balloon poppers his other teammates decided to take. You always either ended up with hull down from too much gat fire, or hull down from too much fire stacks, and unfortunately, you can't keep the hull maintained and protected effectively from both anymore, not with the current chem spray cooldown. It was frustrating to such point that I actually swapped places with the other engineer and took the fire ext as a sidegineer, assisting my main engie. And we won this one, I like to think thanks to this (not really, our ship still barely did anything, we just didn't die anymore :| )

And that's only one example, depending on all kinds of gun combinations, there is always a situation where, having a chem spray, you end up with a choice that either gets you killed, or gets you disabled with fire and killed later on.
I am kind of a person that is tolerant about all kinds of weird ideas for builds and layouts when it comes to competitive games. I believe that everything is useful, depending on the situation. I see the advantages of having all your engineers carrying chem spray, but my belief in everything having its use is the very reason I made this thread. I'm just wondering why noone takes into consideration that there are situations where you'd rather have that one fire extinguisher on your ship. I'm not saying in all kinds of situations, I mean what's the point of taking fire ext if all you're fighting against is hades/flak and such, but with flamer buff we have much more use of the extinguisher.

Alistair MacBain:
For the junker i actually agree. You have a point for the front engineer. Makes alot of sense there.
But for a pyra and pretty much every other ship the chem is still the better choice.
Yes you can ext the balloon quite effective on a pyra and still do your job (for timing weapons atleast).
But why should you render yourself that hard when you could instead just spray the balloon and be fine.
Another issue would be whenever you jump down to tank your balloon will surely burn down due to fire. With a chem you would have alot more time till you need to go up again to keep the balloon alive. A ext cant do this.

And sure the gat flamer combo is hard to deal with. But it doesnt matter if you have a ext or a chem. Yes with the ext you could get the fire out completly in theory but you would still have the thread of the gat destroying your armor. The 2 sec wont matter for most ship as a gat can instagib any armor ingame. Specially when its assisted by a flamer. There is just no point in ext at this point. Get as many hp on your armor as possible to give your guns and ally as much time as possible to kill the enemy that threatens you.
And gat flamer builds were used beforehand. Not as often as now but i saw them before the patch aswell.

I always like to learn new builds. I just think that the chem outweights the benefits of a ext in 90% of the cases. And thats what i think needs to be adressed.
I just dont think even with the flamer buff that the ext is a viable choice in most situations. The situations where a ext is better than a chem are so rare that you barely encounter them.

WafflesToo:
OP may have a point, although I think a mix of both among the crew would likely be the best bet.  Personally I'll stick with my chem sprayer for now because I like the "ounce of prevention" it provides.  It's been sufficient on every ship I've been on so long as the pilot is kind enough to steer us out of the flames before too long.  ;)

Ruairi:
Depends on what I'm flying and how, but generally speaking bringing an extinguisher aboard is considered a crime punishable by death... Considering the fact that extinguisher provides no immunity to fire, and is often only a quick relief if a high stack occurs that needs dousing...

Mezhu:
I can't even stand the sight of engineers above lvl 6 carrying extinguishers.

The tool is in definite need of buff, and I agree it should cause neither a cooldown nor fire immunity, and be usable on components that are currently on cooldown. I'd still run chemspray myself, but at least fire extinguisher would have some use as an easier alternative.

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