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Fire Extinguisher - your opinion?

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Deltajugg:
I decided to make this thread, for I am highly confused with an opinion of some people about the current efficiency of a fire extinguisher. This thread serves only for a discussion about how good do you find the fire ext. in the game since the Cake Patch.

For me, it's currently mandatory. Until recently, the meta was to take chem spray to prevent any inconvenient flame stacks put on your weapon and components with possible hades or mortar shots, mine explosion, a flamer seen once in a while, mostly as a carro/flamer pyra combo, and of course my favourite, incendiary gatling. In all the cases chem spray immediately put on a component prevented any additional flame stacks on f.e. your weapon, thus you avoided fire rate/damage etc. reduced on it and kept the decent efficiency on a weapon, that hopefully turned out to be better than that of your meta-chem sprayed enemy. Even in case of not having a component sprayed once in a while you were most likely fine, for flame stacks didn't go up as much, and you could easily extinguish it with the chem spray, and its 3 second freeze cooldown.
But meta goes on, at least for me, and with current Cake patch we see flamer being a viable choice again, to the point of being really troublesome. Not only has the flamethrower been buffed, and flamestacks are put much faster on every part your ship, chem spray itself has been nerfed as well, with freeze cooldown being 5 seconds now.
Starting from the flamer buff itself, I see it being used to great effect against many ships that have not been sprayed effectively until now, for it was simply never that much of a threat. Galleon guns seem to be on fire 24/7 now, Junker's lower deck is now a personal flying furnace, and don't even get me started on a mobula. Thing is, in many situations those certain parts are not sprayed, for there are some matters to deal with that are more urgent, like repairing the engines, hull, or shooting the guns in the first place. In many situations there's simply no time to deal with a possible future threat, for some things that currently need your attention prove to be lethal if left unattended, but taking care of it simply leaves you exposed to another mortal danger, this time in a form of your whole lower deck being burned down while you were busy keeping the hull up from enemy gatling. With the current flamer stacking like crazy mistakes and higher priority decisions bring the consequences as the ones prior to Cake patch, but with more flame stacks on components it simply proves to be a nuisance that needs to be taken care of ASAP, where before we simply shrugged it off with a simple "meh".
Now, when it comes to the Chem Spray nerf, I realized 2 second make a big difference of all kinds. Every component you spray delays the later repairs by 5 seconds now. A gun already broken can be either repaired and burned down or chem sprayed and barely effective for 5 seconds. Not to mention (this may be just me) the timer clock on my actions is in complete chaos now, for I often find myself being in a situation where 5 seconds is too short of a time for me to do another action in the meantime, like shoot a gun before I repair the currently sprayed hull, but too long for me to efficiently maintain the component. This 5 seconds delay causes all kinds of confusion, hull bracing is practically not a thing anymore, for I can't as effectively pre-spray right before a fight to start bracing immediately, and even if I do, I'll end up with either heavily broken hull for 5 seconds or repaired hull burning nice and warm.
That being said, I think of one Fire Extinguisher on every ship as a consensus for all the disturbance the flamer is causing now. It is a tool that one may think can cause all kinds of different trouble on a ship, but I do not find it being of as big a consequence as not having it and dealing with 20 stacks on your balloon with a chem spray. It is as effective on a ship that has highly ineffective spraying route, like Mobula, as on a ship with areas of higher priority, and thus different parts exposed more often to the enemy fire(literally) like Junker/Galleon. It can also be used effectively on a ship with main component being close enough to the other objectives of an engineer, like Pyramidion's balloon side, and most importantly it can deal with heavy fire stacks if an engineer with a chem spray finds himself under a pressure so overwhelming that his decisions on whether or not to spray will take their toll.
For some reason, despite all the flamer buffs and chem spray nerfs, meta stays the same, and everyone still takes chem spray, without even considering using a fire ext. I want to hear your opinion on whether or not you find one fire extinguisher a viable option for the situations that chem spray can't deal with.

Crafeksterty:
I still find the fire extinguisher usefull. Not statwise tho.

It is just easier to use than the chem spray, maybe not as effective though. The cooldown is just big enough to be annoying for a repair, while the immunity during the cooldown does not help when the immunity does not give space for some form of repair. The only equipment that excuses this is the chems 3 stack extinguish.

In another thread, i suggested making the flamer cooldown 1.5 seconds while still keeping 3 second immunity.
Other than that, i feel better using the extinguisher than the chem spray whenever im engineer. I dont have to deal with a higher cooldown, and fire stacks where i forgot/was too late to apply spray. But thats just me, i dont usually play engineer so the mentality of chemspray makes me irritaed and thus rather use extinguisher.

Spud Nick:
I would like to see the repair cool down removed along with the fire immunity. Than you could repair after you extinguish or put out another fire.

Alistair MacBain:
I totally understand what you say and agree when you talk about the chem spray.
But there is one huge issue that you dont cover for the ext.
Yes you can put out any number of stacks immidiatly. But when you fight against flamers you will still have the issue that it will immidiatly catch fire after 3 second immunity again.
A flamer has such a high rof and such a high ignition chance that you will have a fire on a component again once the immunity runs of. Thus rendering you to constantly camp a component which will stop you from doing anything else until you are out of range for the flamer.
Instead i could have a chem spray and spray the component once giving me 20 seconds to do sth else. Unless there is something else shooting the same component i just sprayed the dmg from the flamer is usually not that high that i cant do anything else.

The only use for a ext is on longer ranges gainst several hades/banshees when the gungineer lets say on a galli has to shoot constantly. A lumberjack for example. The reload time is fast enough for you to barely have effective spray routes for the lower deck so you might want to have the ext instead. On nearly every other ship i tend to bring a chem spray atm.

vyew:

--- Quote from: Alistair MacBain on May 14, 2014, 02:23:37 am ---
Yes you can put out any number of stacks immidiatly. But when you fight against flamers you will still have the issue that it will immidiatly catch fire after 3 second immunity again.
...

Thus rendering you to constantly camp a component which will stop you from doing anything else until you are out of range for the flamer.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Deltajugg on May 13, 2014, 08:24:03 pm ---In many situations there's simply no time to deal with a possible future threat, for some things that currently need your attention prove to be lethal if left unattended, but taking care of it simply leaves you exposed to another mortal danger

--- End quote ---

Exactly why you need the chem spray. Using the extinguisher to keep a single important component from burning down means you cannot turn your attention to anything else.

The only way is perfect chem spray. Damned if you miss a chem spray, just as dammed if you futilely attempt to extinguish fires all over the ship, only to have another 10 stacks on the first component you extinguished.

The solution is, sometimes, to let the component burn down (which will probably happen due to chem spray misses /engineering pressure from Gatling, carronade etc) . Broken components cannot catch on fire. So you simply chem spray immediately after the component is rebuilt. Flamer damage through chem spray is now sufficiently nerfed that it is negligible.

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