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<Development Discussion for Official Competitive League>
redria:
--- Quote from: Alistair MacBain on April 03, 2014, 03:41:46 pm ---Ah damn my memory ...
One thing i wanted to bring up. Keep in mind that sometimes some players get delayed connects at matchstart.
So you either have to pause till everyone is fully loaded in which would make it hard to control if noone really starts an action (preloading, movement (due to wind) etc) or just dont hard force those rules at matchstart.
--- End quote ---
Good point, but as far as I know the slow connects usually don't come up outside of CP maps where moving first gives you an advantage. My tendency would be to make the ruling that when the ref connects they announce "go" and start the timer. The "go" gives teams an indication of the match timer and no advantage should be had by that period of connection. If it became clear that someone wasn't connecting at all pause time could be enabled.
--- Quote ---Yeah mid engage DCs are hard to call.
You either have to make those calls by a referee and then count them towards the team with the dc or just state that there are no midengage pauses.
Second solution gives a disadvantage to the team with the dc. First rule is hard to enforce and can give a team that just got ambushed an advantage.
I would go with the second one cause you could easily abuse the other rule by dcing on purpose.
There is just no good solution. Even an ingame pause feature can give the team that got ambushed an advantage by letting them calm down and analyzing the situation.
--- End quote ---
I think you mixed up first and second solution? Pauses only start when there are no spots down being the more viable solution, pushing the DC team to either carry on anyway, or to organize a retreat. This could be abused somewhat by the non-DC team, but seems like a more consistent rule with less actively intentional abuse potential.
--- Quote ---But one thing i would think of ...
Especially for such a big tournament. Give the teams a break for one week or so.
Best way would be to split the games of each divison on different weekends. Maybe 2 divisions (based on division number) per week/weekend. That way everyone gets a pause and doesnt have to show up every week cause those weekly events where you always have to show up can make it really hard for teams/clans and even more for the smaller ones to be able to compete on a regular basis.
--- End quote ---
Hmm.. Move to an 8 week regular season, with a 3 week post-season? Everyone is guaranteed one bye week during the middle 4 weeks (weeks 3-6) of regular season play. The first week of the post-season is a bye week as well, with no matches taking place.
This takes the full season to 11 weeks, meaning we could probably safely run only 3 seasons in a year. 4 seasons would leave us with only ~3 weeks downtime between seasons probably not enough. 3 seasons gives us about 6 weeks downtime between seasons, which leaves open opportunities for other events. 2 seasons per year gives the most flexibility to other events, and would probably work well with this.
I want to minimize the length of the season so teams aren't committing too far into the future, and I want the regular season to have enough matches to be meaningful. This might be a good blend.
--- Quote ---And one thing i would think of aswell ...
While its great to have people tied to a team and not have cross team substitutes every week or even more extreme every game it makes it really hard to find substitutes.
Maybe allow a listed substitute pool for every team where they can get a sub for one game. Limit that pool to a certain number (10-12 players or sth like that). Allow only one or two subs per team/boat. And dont allow them to sub for multiple teams on one week/weekend and then everyone has a chance even with a small ammount of players to play on a quite regular basis.
--- End quote ---
This seems similar to my 12 members to a team + 4 soft members. The 4 soft members constitute the backups.
Are you suggesting each team can create a pool of substitutes from which to draw, or that a grand pool of substitutes is created for all teams from which any team may request support?
Something interesting to see how these rules would play out small scale would be to get 6-8 teams to run a single weekend of matches (fun matches) on stream following every rule. This wouldn't catch everything we may have missed, but it might give a good indication of how it would be to play and watch under these rules. 6 teams would finish play in <=2 hours.
Alistair MacBain:
Nope sadly those slow connects arent unique for CP.
I know one player in the gents that had those slow connects in alot of our matches.
The first and second were more targeted at my two examples ;).
And personally i just dont like tieing it onto spotting. Thats a game mechanic thats sometimes sacrificed for faster fire. And due to the strange behaviour of clouds which can lead to the inability to spot this can be kinda unfair. I understand what you intended to do with it. I just think spotting isnt consistent enough to base it upon this.
True it is hard to plan that far into future when you prolong it to much.
Both ways have their pros and cons.
Your softcap for members is kinda similiar but forces it totally onto players and makes it quite hard for newer teams to find a sub really fast.
It doesnt need to replace your soft membercap but imo this substitute pool would make it much easier for teams to find a sub. It also reduces the commitment for the players.
redria:
--- Quote from: Alistair MacBain on April 03, 2014, 04:21:50 pm ---Nope sadly those slow connects arent unique for CP.
I know one player in the gents that had those slow connects in alot of our matches.
--- End quote ---
I more mean it doesn't matter much outside of CP. I know it happens, but I don't know of it negatively affecting anyone. I'm not sure that there is anything to do about it except say that the timer starts when the ref says go and you can move/do things as soon as your character will move in-game. This should not impact the outcome of matches.
--- Quote ---And personally i just dont like tieing it onto spotting. Thats a game mechanic thats sometimes sacrificed for faster fire. And due to the strange behaviour of clouds which can lead to the inability to spot this can be kinda unfair. I understand what you intended to do with it. I just think spotting isnt consistent enough to base it upon this.
--- End quote ---
This is fair. I will have to think more on this. It isn't a pretty thing. Has a disconnect happened mid-engage in any events previously? Do you just play until an engagement ends?
I suggested tying it to spotting as an indicator of an engagement. That way you don't have a ref trying to judgement call whether an engagement is active or not. There must be a better solution.
Alistair MacBain:
A slow connect can affect a game. Sometimes but not always.
Most obvious is a slow connect from a pilot.
Let me give you an example ... and yes it was a gents game cause i was in it so i remember those games the best :P.
Map: Northern Fjords
teams: mandarin, gents
teams spawned ( gents on bridge side), mandarin rushed towards the mountain on the side of the gents right at the start of the game
A slow connect in such a situation can cause alot. A pilot not moving instantly does the most. But even a crewmember can do a serious harm on such a situation. A slower shot or a bot taking over a manticore, shooting a volley and then starting a reload can also decide an engagement.
Yes those are special situations but they happen.
I kinda like the idea in theory to let the match start by refcall after teams called a full connect. It has its own problems but with the current spawn system there shouldnt be a serious influence on the outcome of the match. At least i cant think of any atm.
Yeah active engagement is hard to call.
Clear things first ...
A destroyed armor is obviously a open engagement. A dead balloon would be the same if you ask me.
A close position of minimum 2 emenies (dunno how to state close) would mean be active aswell if you ask me.
Its really hard to judge such a thing.
And yes those DCs happened. They happened alot. Some teams stated prior to the matchstart that they wont pause. Some teams paused after they were asked. But due to bots taking over its quite hard to judge those things.
Captain Smollett:
Just a few thoughts:
I think giving every team a by week would help ease battle fatigue as well.
Also I am a strong advocate for more lenient substitution rules. I don't think I ever made it through a cogs season with as few as 4 substitutes.
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