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Zenith (concept for a new ship)

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Milevan Faent:

--- Quote from: Mattilald Anguisad on March 09, 2014, 07:40:49 pm ---@Pie: there is no way goldfish is that fast, becouse otherwise it would have no problem escaping Pyra, and ti does have problems escaping pyra (original Prya max Speed was listed as 30,5m/s and Goldfish 32m/s - witch is what the difirence in speed actual feels: negligable).

--- End quote ---

Looking at the stats in the game, the Goldfish has to be that fast. Pyra should have no chance of catching a Goldfish.... if it does, then something is wrong with the stats, or the pilot. Possibly a Kero on the Pyra could let it catch a Goldfish, but a Goldfish can do that too and completely leave a Pyra in the dust. That said, can you comment on the actual ship concept?

EDIT: and there is a blind spot, as I said in the OP: above and in front or below and behind. Even to the sides if you get close or the guns don't have good horizontal arcs, and even then it requires people to be on top and bottom deck at the same time to hit something to the sides, so really the sides are generally a blind spot too, but with situational setups that can help compensate for the complete lack of actual broadside weapons on the ship.

Also, while the ship has limited ability to fire directly forward or behind, as it favors attacking from below or above (often at an angle, but still above or below).

Mattilald Anguisad:
Pyra has no problem keeping up with Goldfsh - Goldfish could eventualy escape, but generaly you don't want to turn your cak on prya's front unless you are a squid. It takes way longer than the stated speed difirence indicates for goldfish to get out of Pyra's gat range.

You seem to have started writting before I edited my post.
Gun mounts at least thus far can't be angled upwards or downwards.
Ship also needs to have a blind spot (in horisontal arc anyway, there are allways going to be directly above and directly below.

Milevan Faent:

--- Quote from: Mattilald Anguisad on March 09, 2014, 07:54:02 pm ---Pyra has no problem keeping up with Goldfsh - Goldfish could eventualy escape, but generaly you don't want to turn your cak on prya's front unless you are a squid. It takes way longer than the stated speed difirence indicates for goldfish to get out of Pyra's gat range.

You seem to have started writting before I edited my post.
Gun mounts at least thus far can be angle upwards or downwards.
Ship also needs to have a blind spot (in horisontal arc anyway, there are allways going to be directly above and directly below.

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I started writing before you finished editing, then edited in a response to your edited in response XD

That said, with the setup of the guns, looking at all the weapons in the game, and taking into consideration the positions of the guns, Flare, Harpoon, Carronade, Gatling, Flamer, Artemis, Flak, and Banshee can cover anything that doesn't get too close. If you get your ship right next to the Zenith though, the guns can't possibly angle to hit it, aside from maybe the Flare, Artemis, and other really high horizontal arcing weapons, and even then only from top or bottom, never both. That's not really too big a threat when all the heavy-hitting weapons you might put on a Zenith can't possibly hit anything from the side. I generally consider the sides to both be more blind-spots than anything. Even among the weapons that could be used for their horizontal arc, you also need to consider if their vertical arc is enough to be able to get them to aim at a ship on the same altitude as the Zenith. Most weapons will have a problem there too.

That said, you seem to be misunderstanding something. All the weapons on the ship are naturally angled up or down, thus giving the ship a natural advantage for vertical combat, but a disadvantage at horizontal combat. That changes how the blindspots work as well. Weapons like the Hades that have good vertical arcs in both directions are really good since they can angle for attacks pretty much anywhere, but they have limited horizontal arcs, limiting them to firing in a rather narrow cone horizontally speaking. They will never fire sideways enough to cover that blind-spot. An Artemis could fire far enough to the side to cover it a bit, especially if the target isn't right next to the ship, but if it's on the lower deck, it's not going to aim high enough to really hit anything to the side, and aiming down from the top deckit can only get things just a bit below level with the ship itself. Conversely, that same Artemis on the bottom of the ship can actually pummel anything that gets below it relatively easily, far easier than a normal Artemis. This makes the blindspot dependant on the weapon setup, but generally there is no way to cover every side of the ship.

Mattilald Anguisad:
I seem to have made an important typo in previous post. Gun mounts can't be turned to fire more up or down, as far as I understand the system. I might be wrong or it may change, but keep it in mind. Itf it can be do so it might be cool.
Can you try to make a layout - a very simplistic one if you have to? It would help understandin where important components (like hull armor, baloon, engines, guns) are.

Milevan Faent:

--- Quote from: Mattilald Anguisad on March 09, 2014, 08:28:43 pm ---I seem to have made an important typo in previous post. Gun mounts can't be turned to fire more up or down, as far as I understand the system. I might be wrong or it may change, but keep it in mind. Itf it can be do so it might be cool.
Can you try to make a layout - a very simplistic one if you have to? It would help understandin where important components (like hull armor, baloon, engines, guns) are.

--- End quote ---

I've been working on finding someone who can draw my concept, but no luck so far. And a major part of my concept is intentionally changing the gun mounts to actually be angled up or down (depending on which deck they're on). It doesn't actually make a gun fire with a bigger arc than normal, it just changes the default angle of the gun. For instance, an Artemis on the upper deck right gun from the wheel can (treating level with the deck as 0 degrees) fire between 40 degrees up, and 5 degrees down. Since the gun is also at 30 degrees to one side, it can aim out to 95 degrees right (treating 0 degrees as straight behind the ship) and 35 degrees left, which is enough to fire straight to the side, but not toward the front of the ship at all. Looking at these numbers, the gun's arc is the same, it just covers a different area than it normally would (which is noramlly mostly below the ship, and with a wide arc to cover front, side, or back, depending on where the gun is mounted. This covers more diagonally back and up than anything.

Nothing really prevents Muse from making a ship that is like this, and I think the concept is interesting enough that I wanted to share it, which is why I made the Zenith.

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