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Zenith (concept for a new ship)

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Milevan Faent:


This is how I cheat, since this forum's table system is too complicated to mess with.

redria:

--- Quote from: Milevan Faent on March 09, 2014, 08:36:44 pm ---And a major part of my concept is intentionally changing the gun mounts to actually be angled up or down (depending on which deck they're on). It doesn't actually make a gun fire with a bigger arc than normal, it just changes the default angle of the gun. For instance, an Artemis on the upper deck right gun from the wheel can (treating level with the deck as 0 degrees) fire between 40 degrees up, and 5 degrees down. Since the gun is also at 30 degrees to one side, it can aim out to 95 degrees right (treating 0 degrees as straight behind the ship) and 35 degrees left, which is enough to fire straight to the side, but not toward the front of the ship at all. Looking at these numbers, the gun's arc is the same, it just covers a different area than it normally would (which is noramlly mostly below the ship, and with a wide arc to cover front, side, or back, depending on where the gun is mounted. This covers more diagonally back and up than anything.

Nothing really prevents Muse from making a ship that is like this, and I think the concept is interesting enough that I wanted to share it, which is why I made the Zenith.

--- End quote ---

I think we all understand the idea you are presenting regarding guns. The thing is that since no other gun in the game is mounted like this, there is no indication that Muse has an easy way to do so at this time.
Having ships where the weapon mounts angle up or down would make for some interesting play on height, so not all engagements have to happen with both ships at nearly the same height. But the game would have to support such a feature. Theoretically it wouldn't be too hard, but coding can sometimes surprise you in certain situations and just kinda slap you and say "nope. that won't actually work. you are a bad person and you should feel bad".
I do like the creative thinking though.

Milevan Faent:
So, I'm considering changing the stats I've posted so far for the Zenith from 600 Armor/800 Health to 680 Armor and 750 Health (the ship is suppose to be more about the armor than the health), but as I can't really test the ship out, I have no idea how viable it is with the current numbers, and don't know if this would be a buff or a nerf. Not sure if it's a good idea, but it would bring the numbers more in line with the original stats concept I posted in the OP.

redria:
I think my biggest problem with this ship is that despite it being creative, you are trying too hard for it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the heavy weapon points straight down, right? This means you can basically only hit someone if you are directly above them. If you are directly above someone, with your pilot shadowing them, your gunner is going to hit every shot. That would be easier to shoot than the front gun of a goldfish.
So in situations where you get directly above an enemy, your ship is absurdly over powered. That heavy weapon will have a field day against ships that don't have that same mechanic and can't shoot back up at you.
If you fail to get above somebody, which any experienced pilot will refuse to let you get above them, your ship is so underpowered it is laughable. Those 2 light front guns? good luck getting them to hit something at your height with any appreciable firepower.
Your best firepower is your back side when an enemy is matching heights with you.

Your back side is essentially 3/5 of a mobula, without a balloon helping guard your armor from piercing, and with all your engines sitting pretty and exposed. So when your engines are shot out and you can't turn, your firepower is gone. Firepower that really wouldn't help much anyway. Those guns will really only help you if they are close range guns. Putting sniping guns on those back 3 slots... I just can't think of a combo that would work.

I like the creativity. I really do. But it all seems very forced to me. You are forcing the guns to be in this configuration because you want to make it interesting. But it just doesn't pan out to me.

But maybe I am crazy and wrong. I just want to point out what I see to be major flaws so if you agree you can fix them. The biggest of those being that you have one way, and one way only, to fly this ship.

Milevan Faent:
I hadn't thought of some of that, so the feedback is appreciated. One thing that was part of the concept since I started was to make it a sort of "bomber" ship, though I may have over-specialized it. I'm open to ideas for improving the concept while trying to maintain the feel of a vertical combat ship niche. Really, with so few ships in the game, every ship tends to have a niche feel to it. Most often, I pick my ship based on the map, rather than my being any good with it. Like on any open map, I'll take my Mobula and snipe the hell out of everyone, or Spire if I don't have a full or competent crew, while on more confined maps its Goldfish or Squid. I don't even really think of using a Junker or Galleon, and I don't really like how Pyramidions fly.

Also, as to the 3/5ths of a Mobula, I'd like to point out a Mobula really only ever has 3 guns anyway. 90% of the time, I tell my crew to just ignore the 2 guns on the far sides, and only use them when I'm not on the wheel using one myself. I wasn't too sure what to do with the guns, so a lot of that part was made up as I was writing it, rather than thought out beforehand as was the case with the core concept and shape of the ship. Help improving that part is always appreciated.

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