Author Topic: Realism has had it's fun...  (Read 99342 times)

Offline Echoez

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2014, 04:22:19 pm »
Piloting, however, is mostly about macro: you have to know the game state, your opponents gun arcs, and your opponents *strategy,* and you have to be planning and executing the counter-strategy before they've even really started to act.

That's being a tactician, not a pilot, I do accept the fact that you have to assume the position of the 'commander' which also includes tactical decisions, but the actual piloting part lacks a great deal. Positioning is not a piloting skill, it's simple tactics and strategy that has nothing to do with how good you actually are at steering the vessel you are piloting. What is being asked for here is to make the piloting bit better.

Offline -Mad Maverick-

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #76 on: March 29, 2014, 02:23:23 am »
yup and more fun

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #77 on: March 29, 2014, 03:05:34 am »
I might be mistaken, but dogfighting games exist too.

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #78 on: March 29, 2014, 04:37:33 am »
I don't think I have been playing the same game as Janeway and Gilder. When has this game ever been about dog fighting?

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #79 on: March 29, 2014, 05:04:37 am »

Another thing to consider is your ally (this game is about teamwork, right?). If you can't survive in a close range 1v1, get your teammate to help you out. Getting sniped at? Get your ally to kill them from behind. What else is he here for? To look pretty?
Also, you are the pilot and thus most likely the captain and the one responsible for the communication between ships in your team. So you better communicate.

If you could get away with everything in every situation without any help what so ever then, and only then, would I consider this game boring.


But that is not how the recipe is right now. The current recipe is widdle enemy down, kill, then move to next, rinse repeat. There is no if you can survive CQC or rewarding good pilots who can fly evasive. That is boring. 1v1s rely more and more on who gets the key shot off vs tactics or piloting skill. Because...the boats are broken.

Back when this game was fun...pilots were rewarded if they learned how to 1v1. That in turn helped support their allies better and allow boats more options during engagements. I did this all the time back then. People would see squid and think easy kill. So i'd have 2 boats chasing me all over which allowed Brick to just come in and sweep up kills. They'd usually realize what I was doing and then switch to him. He'd in turn do the same trick, dodging and weaving, buying me time to rip them up. Both boats had to have crews which were in tune with us. If one person missed a repair or rebuild, we'd die. But we'd pull it off and it was beautiful. I had engineers, new players, learn more during those matches than in any other match they'd join.

The ship, should not define the pilot or crew. Each should be approached with a different mindset and each should allow a pilot or crew to shine. Opposing pilots should be more afraid of the opposing players than of their ship. I should have to enter a match and know from reputation that my opponents are going to be tricky. Not look at the boat and go...ok can counter that with this or that.

This is how Brick and I first met and started flying. I'd see his Pyra, he'd see my Squid. We'd see the pilot and crew behind the ship, not the ship. I'd fly to counter him, he'd fly to counter me. When 1.2 came and the game slowed down, this changed completely. The worry went from how to beat the pilot and crew to just how to beat the ship. Which spawned: Qwerty throws water bottle and Polaris falls asleep, 1hr+ Merc battles.

We had to change our mindset because the ships just couldn't work anymore. They were the limiting factor in what we could do. End of that Cogs S2 taught us that fast. When the ships become the limiting factor, you become a turret. You sit there with your little mercs and peck away until they finally give up and go all in. Then it just comes down to who gets the better engagement.

If I could take everyone back who joined this game post 1.2 and show them the difference, they'd realize it right away how much GOIO has lost in this last year. Yeah you can look at vids now and chuckle, that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about actually flying it and experiencing it in person. Vids are pointless and cannot replicate how great this game was when the airship reflected the skill of the pilot + crew. To see that again, we need speed back, we need mobility back.

We don't have to take this game to planes dogfighting to do it. I swear this is the #1 broken record complaint by the realism crowd. "Airships shouldn't be dogfighting!" Blah blah blah...make that a bumper sticker and stick it on your wheelchair and shut up.

Squid were the only, ONLY!!!!, ships that could dogfight to some degree, TOTALLY RELIANT ON GOOD PILOTS AND CREWS TO PULL IT OFF, and they needed it because they were tissue paper fighters.

You don't have to turn this game into dogfighting to make it fun. Stop it QQing about dogfighting and go play Warthunder or whatever it is passes for flight sim combat nowadays. No one is saying GOIO should become that. In fact, bring it up in game, I'll welcome you to my block list cause I'm tired of you people.

But you do have to speed it the hell up to make the players the ones to be feared, not the ship.

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #80 on: March 29, 2014, 05:33:17 am »
I think this post is going in circles.

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #81 on: March 29, 2014, 10:14:05 am »
Y'all think this is an airplane game when really it is closer to a navy game. While a few ships could use a slight maneuverability buff, y'all just was blimps to be space fighters. I enjoy that just because I am a great pilot I can't win without a good teammate and crew. I think y'all could learn to enjoy that to.

Meta changes. Better to learn it than moan about it. Your glory days only reflected the skill of the pilot.  You didn't need a good engineer.  Pop on hydrogen and you were a mile high to leisurely repair. I didn't find that fun at all.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 10:17:49 am by Sammy B. T. »

Offline Alistair MacBain

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #82 on: March 29, 2014, 12:48:40 pm »
That sounds alot like you have those fancy pink glasses when remembering back.
And there was no peeking with mercs at Cogs S2.
Cogs S2 was barely a sniper battle.
The only real team that snipe back in those days were the ducks.
Even the gents were brawlers.


Offline The Djinn

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #83 on: March 29, 2014, 01:23:46 pm »
...But you do have to speed it the hell up to make the players the ones to be feared, not the ship.

How much would you suggest speeding things up then? What's your suggestion? I'm honestly curious, as I'm not sure to what degree you'd want things changed (having not played in the era you remember so fondly).

As an aside, however, I *always* fear players rather than ships. Zill's Squid is far and away more threatening than Random Squid Pilot A's ship, and my match against Redria's Pyramidion in my Goldfish was one of the most piloting and crew intensive fights I've ever had...much more so than when I'm up against a mediocre Pyra pilot.

So I guess I'm just not seeing the issue you are. In my experience a skilled pilot is STILL ten times (or more) more frightening than an unskilled pilot. I know I can literally run circles around unskilled pilots, often coming out relatively unscathed in even 2v1 brawling situations (if I'm in a Squid, Goldfish, Junker, or Pyra), whereas skilled pilots and crews pose a much harder challenge on both my piloting, my positioning, and my tactics. I personally don't think an increase in ship speed would change this much, but I would (as mentioned above) be interested to see how dramatic a change you'd be looking for.

So can you give me some idea of what exactly you'd like to see changed, as well as how (or why) those changes specifically would make the game feel better to you? Are we talking 10% greater ship mobility across the board, for example? 20%? 50%? If a Galleon with Phoenix Claw currently takes about 15 seconds to switch broadsides completely, what would a BETTER value be for you? How would this translate (approximately) across other ships?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 01:38:09 pm by The Djinn »

Offline macmacnick

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #84 on: March 29, 2014, 01:44:29 pm »
...I think gilder wants more acceleration on the squid, with less permahull...along with chute/hydrogen giving faster acceleration so they're more effective and worthwhile...

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2014, 10:04:57 pm »
Squid acceleration is fine IMO, but the top speed and turning acceleration/speed are too slow.

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #86 on: March 30, 2014, 08:21:16 am »
Squid acceleration is fine IMO, but the top speed and turning acceleration/speed are too slow.

But like, the old squid was able to break the sound barrier... I know this thread is about: "Who needs realism? #yoloswag" But I think supersonic blimps are pushing it a little ~

I stand where Sammy and Spud do - I like floating around in balloons and acting like a pirate, the pacing of this game and speed of the ships is intrinsic to that aesthetic, if I wanted to dogfight in spaceships I would play something like Vector Strike or myriad of other dogfighting games that are out there, but then it would be weird to act like a pirate. ^^


Offline Tanya Phenole

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #87 on: March 30, 2014, 06:08:45 pm »
And the airships danced around each other, slowly and depressively....

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #88 on: March 30, 2014, 07:11:45 pm »
And the airships danced around each other, slowly and depressively....


Then the captains that they should play less passively.

Y'all act like just because you can't have a space fighter blimp that you have to just barely move at all and limp everywhere. Get over yourself.

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Realism has had it's fun...
« Reply #89 on: March 30, 2014, 08:25:03 pm »
Maybe you guys should also be happy that Muse listens to the extent that they do, and accept that they will make the game however they want to make it.