Main > General Discussion
Tutorial Survey
The Sky Wolf:
1. What level are you? (Gunner/Engineer/Pilot) - 5 Gunner/5 Engineer/6 Pilot.
2. How many matches have you played? - Almost 800.
3. Have you played the current tutorials already?
If you have not, please play them. If you have already and have time, please play them again to refresh your memory. It took me about 15 minutes to play through all of them. - I did play them recently.. Played them long after learning combat piloting from live match trial and error.
4. Were any of the tutorials too long? Please specify. - Not at all.
5. What did you like most about the tutorials? - I liked how it thoroughly teaches you about every ship item.
6. What did you find confusing about the tutorials? - There ought to be an arrow pointing down at the specific ship item it's trying to teach you about.
7. What was your biggest misconception about how the game works when you first started playing? - I thought any gun could kill a ship ...Which is why I used to fly an all Gatling Gun Pyramidion ..I thought the reason we got different guns to choose from was simply preference of fighting style.. So I did all Gatling Guns because I wanted to be like the Red Baron... I was disappointed when I found out almost every gun completely relies on another gun or ship ramming to get a kill, but I'm now used to it.
8. What was your biggest misconception about how the game works after you finished the tutorials? - I did the tutorials long after learning from trial and error how to effectively fly in combat so I couldn't tell you.
8. Are there any important concepts that new players should know, but the Tutorials do not mention? - Most guns requires another specific type of gun for a kill... You should stick close to your teammate... AI crews are rarely reliable... Live crews prefer a captain with a microphone... Captains don't ever actually need spyglasses... Some ships are better for sniping than brawling... Certain clouds harm you very badly while others hide you... Try to always read crew/team chat no matter how nervous you are... Always study enemy ships before a match... Some ships and gun loadouts are better for certain maps and ....Don't ever get close to a carronade unless you're above and behind it.
9. Have you read the in-game manual? - Yes.
10. Did you know that the in-game manual is expanded as you unlock new Achievements? - Yes.
Goldenglade:
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3450.0.html
Can you refer to this mr. Lenin sir? please don't hit me *ducks and covers*
Milevan Faent:
--- Quote from: Goldenglade on February 08, 2014, 04:05:58 am ---https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3450.0.html
Can you refer to this mr. Lenin sir? please don't hit me *ducks and covers*
--- End quote ---
I don't have time to fill out this kind of survey right now, but I support what Goldenglade linked to.
I also agree with the others who say the "manual" shouldn't have info locked behind achievement requirements. I hate that, and just don't look at the manual now that I know it's never going to tell me what I need to know. If I want specific info on a weapon or ship, I should just be able to look it up without having to search through forums and wikis that aren't even up-to-date sometimes, and that's what the manual SHOULD be, but it clearly isn't.
ramjamslam:
I did the tutorial when it first appeared in the dev app and it was very different then but I have tried out all of the new ones. here we go!
Guns of Icarus Online Player Tutorial Survey:
* 7/14/10. btw, levels change in the forum over time so I think there is value in putting them down here.
* 3960
* I played them in the dev app and they were very different back then. They don't just end abruptly anymore which was the biggest problem (new players thought the tutorials used to crash).
* Engineer beginner is too long, it makes you do each of repair or rebuild 4 or 5 times. details in next post.
* For the gunner tutorial I like that it shows a range of different guns
* In the beginner pilot tutorial, I got to the point I was supposed to but it didn't seem to trigger the next step. I will explain in more detail in my next post on the current tutes
* Wow, it may be too long ago. I do remember thinking that the main difference between mallet/spanner was if you sat on the hull with the spanner you could get it back to full really quick, but you had to stay there hitting it constantly and that was the main risk/reward difference between the tools. Turns out that that is not the case and I didn't initially realise the repair/rebuild differences. This was way before the Tutorial was around though.
* that lochnagar was not good for the gatling gun, but the tutorials totally changed my mind about that :P
* I think the mallet to repair/spanner to rebuild concept is a bit lost in all the text. The engineer tutorials should be more pithy like the gunner ones.
* as reference material rather than from front to back.
* Yes, but I think someone might have told me that. Maybe it should be more obvious when you unlock one of those challenges to go looking in the manual??
* Another post detailing my impressions of the current tutorials incoming...
ramjamslam:
So turns out I had a few things to say about each Tutorial as they currently stand. To this point I have tried not to read everyone else's posts before doing mine (ok, I read a little bit), so I may be repeating others thoughts.
Gunner Beginner Tutorial
====================
1. The gunner has a spanner instead of a wrench. It's a minor point but I'd prefer that the gunner is introduced with equipment that should be using in real games, but at least it's not a mallet (or worse).
2. After firing the first shot the gunner is asked to hit R to reload, but exhausting the clip moves you to the next instruction. Consider waiting until the player has either changed ammo or hit the R button while the clip is not full until the player progresses to the next instruction.
3. The player is directed to the side gun of the pyramidion. This is probably just out of convienience but gunners should be introduced to gunning by directing them where they will spend most of their time: the top right of the Pyramidion. They need to learn where their captain wants them to be.
4. The Artemis is used to demonstrate how to take down both the hull armor and the balloon of a target dummy here, and it does it in 2 shots of each. Again, I think this is setting up unrealistic expectations that you can just point any gun at any component. Please consider switching the gunner to a different gun to destroy the balloon.
I know this is just a basic tutorial but I think you should give new players exposure guns at a station that a gunner will use, not the side gune of a pyra. Since doing this tutorial I noticed that the Beginner engineer is top and bottom deck of the pyra. Top deck for gunner please!
Gunner Advanced Training
=====================
1. Still on side guns of pyra!!! These are the guns of the main engi unless you have a sniper side.
2. Magically going through all the guns, this is pretty cool. I think I'll be recommending this training a bit. Honestly though, I wish it did all the guns.
3. you probably don't get enough time on each weapon, some dummies are spawned move after a while so you have nothing to shoot at.
4. Target dummy for hades moves left :( At least make the dummy for the hades move right so the player can see the target and their previous shots projectiles
5. Gatling gun goes through these ammo types: heavy clip: not anymore, charged: maybe: lochnagar: wtf
6. I think it needs pointing out again: we are teaching new players to use lochnagar in the gatling gun!
6. oh at some point my tool changed to a mallet. I'm guessing this is a bug.
7. for the mortar Tute burst, greased and lesmok are good but I think the dummy should be spawned further away for lesmok because you don't get a sense that it reaches further from this.
8. Merc rounds: incendiary: wot, heatsink: nice, heavy clip: lol. Again dummies are spawned too close, and by now there is a ton of dummies banging into each other.
9. After all this, I think the training here should be split up into short range / long range tutorials or have a firing range where you can try _all_ the guns at different ranges.
Engineer Beginner
===============
Maybe it is just me but this was a bit frustrating. Unlike the gunner tutorial where things went by really quickly, this was very repetitive. I had to repair a gun from half health 5 times, then rebuild something else 5 or 6 times, it didn't feel like I was progressing.
Engineer Advanced
===============
1. strange that it explains wrench/mallet/spanner without actually using them - this may be bugged.
2. Then gives you a extinguisher/chemspray/buff (lol) and advanced Engineer training is basically 'buff everything!'
3. By "buff everything" I am excluding some of the engines. You are only told to buff the left engine! this results in a hard to steer ship.
4. This tutorial gives a false impression that the previous tutes loadout (mallet/spanner/extinguisher) is for beginners and the buff hammer loadout is for experts. Worse, in advanced you are given a extingisher/chemsparay/buff loadout. What!?
5. Unfortunately there is no mechanic to teach chem spray (even the current achievements teach you to be reactive with chem spray rather than proactive)
6. Ignoring chem, you should teach the 2 most common loadouts, mallet/spanner/extinguisher and wrench/buff/extinguisher. Teach the pros/cons of those loadouts. e.g. teach mallet/spanner/extinguisher then teach the risk/reward of reducing the amount of repair tools by adding buff.
Pilot Beginner
===========
Broken. I flew to the destination and it didn't register. One of the rolling clouds broke everything and I was imobile. There was no AI here to help and just me with a spanner. I quit this tutorial out of frustration, not knowing how to finish it. In summary: broken.
Pilot Advanced
============
Going through the pilot tools is ok I guess (no spyglass or range finder :P). At the end it described the functionality of F2 and F3 but again there was no AI, so I think this part of the tutorial is broken.
Thoughts
=======
How do we teach people what ammo to use when patches are changing the effectiveness of them (e.g. heavy isn't as relevant anymore for the gatling gun)? Rather than shooting at target dummies at near point blank range, I would rather some sort of firing range with different distances and allow the player as much time on each gun to fire at all distances.
A fundamental of this game is crew composition and crew dynamic. e.g. for the Pyramidion which is used throughout these tutorials you need a pilot, gunner on top right gun, gungineer taking care of the balloon on top left gun and main engi on bottom deck. If you had new players buy a 4 pack and do the tutorials together or separately, they should have these concepts down. OK, this reminds me, some of these tutorials you could have others join and some you could not with the error in chat: "Failed to join match: target user is not in a match."
On reflection of matches I have played with newer players, I do remember seeing new gunners wander aimlessly around a pyramidion and even players putting incendiary in mercs (I play on a lot of merc/artimes mobulas) so I do wonder if the current tutorials are teaching new players bad habits.
BTW, I typed this up in markdown format (because I hate bbcode) but I can't really be bothered converting it to bbcode :P. On the plus side, markdown is totally readable in plain text!
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