Light Flak Discussion

[GeoRmr]

The light flak is one of the most underappreciated guns in the game. It is very situational, so much so that people tend to prefer other more versatile weapons such as the banshee or artemis in it's place;
the major problem being that it has a very limited space of effectivness due to its relativley short range, and relativley large arming time.

Here are a few tweaks that I would like to see:

A reduction in arming time to match that of the hades.
An increase in range to a distance nearing that of the heavy flak.
A reduction in jitter (idealy to 0) and a buff to it's direct damage, alternativley an increase in clip size.

[Tharnator]

The problem is not that it is just weak, it was over-nerfed back in the days when everyone used to use gat-flak on their pyra. The devs took away a huge part of the damage, so that 1 full clip can't kill a ship, which it could do with ease before. I agree, it is weaker on long range than the Art or Banshee and on shorter range than the mortar, so some de-nerfs or buffs would be nice

[Skrimskraw]

crafeksterty showed me a medium range spire.
on the top we had a hades to hull strip
on the top right we had a light flak cannon
on the bottem left we had a light flak cannon.
on the big gun we had a hwacha.

I was gunning the big gun. I made a full disable with burst or heavy, and then their hull would break due to hades fire. at that moment I would run to the lower flak and fire a greased ammo clip, which made it possible to get back to my hwacha and reload correct ammo.
At the same til crafeksterty would run to the top light flak and fire a clip of charged flak shots.

I kid you not we killed a junker in a matter of seconds from his hull being down with this at fairly longish medium range.

[Sammy B. T.]

I think the issue is that you need two light flaks for it to be effective.

[Skrimskraw]

I think the issue is that you need two light flaks for it to be effective.

we tried it with 1 flak also, the hwacha would most often be the hull breaker due to gunner coordination being a bit off. but the rest of the hwacha shots maybe 5 of them made direct damage, and the hades and flak alone was able to keep secure distance and kill ships at the same range.

But yes 2 of them were more effective.
But you can say the same thing with artemis, mercs, or carronades they come best in pairs or even more.

the flak still have a faster and more easy to master bullet drop than the mortar which is wont work as well at the same range we used as the flak did.

I think you will agree with me here sammy: the hades is probaly the next big thing coming up, but it doesnt work that well with a mortar than it does with an artemis or a light flak.

[Omniraptor]

Burst (7 shots) can one-clip a pyramidion, spire or mobula, though it can be difficult to get them all in before the rebuild. Buffed greased can do the same faster, but then there's the difficulty of buffing guns with ubiquitous artemises.

Of course you can kill a junker in one clip with any ammo type except lesmok and lochnagar.

[Captain Smollett]

The light flak is one of the most underappreciated guns in the game. It is very situational, so much so that people tend to prefer other more versatile weapons such as the banshee or artemis in it's place;
the major problem being that it has a very limited space of effectivness due to its relativley short range, and relativley large arming time.

Here are a few tweaks that I would like to see:

A reduction in arming time to match that of the hades.
An increase in range to a distance nearing that of the heavy flak.
A reduction in jitter (idealy to 0) and a buff to it's direct damage, alternativley an increase in clip size.

I think everyone, including awkm, recognize this gun would benefit from a buff (he stated that it's the next gun to be looked at after any artemis changes go into the gameO

Generally I agree with all the buffs though I probably wouldn't go quite as far with some.  I sort of like the small jitter on the light flak (makes heavy an option and adds difficulty to landing range shots) and  I think heavy flak range would be a bit too much for the weapon.  It definitely needs an arming range decrease a range increase and a damage buff; were those to happen the weapon would start getting frequent use from beginner matches to competitive play.

[Crafeksterty]

I wrote a lengthy post but Skrimskraw allready added in my inputt.


All i have to say is: Guys... give this weapon a chance. It is actually pretty damn strong.

IMO the gun only needs a quicker projectile speed, and a more impactful effect. Because sometimes even beyond arming time, the light flak does not give that satisfying omf.

[Captain Smollett]

Hmm, I actually like the projectile speed.

Always interesting to hear other people views on things like this, tends to broaden my perspective on proposed changes.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Id like to see the range increased to justify its long arming. I've been using it lately and it still does ok damage within arming. Its not gutless like a LJ in that regard. Jitter can stay cause as Smollett said, it makes heavy an option that is fairly appealing for precision shots.

For anyone wishing it killed in one clip, keep wishing. It's the slower killing, long range option vs the mortar. It's got to stay that way to be balanced.

[Captain Smollett]

For anyone wishing it killed in one clip, keep wishing. It's the slower killing, long range option vs the mortar. It's got to stay that way to be balanced.

It actually can already kill most ships in 1 clip with a buff or burst rounds.  Effective range limits not withstanding it still feels a little bit too weak per shot and with jitter, shot drop and ship movement 100% accuracy is far from guaranteed.  I still think a little damage per shot boost would be welcomed.

[Wundsalz]

I can see 2 future scenarios for this gun:
1.) hopefully we'll loose our only light weapon long range hull killer with an artemis-nerf soon. The Light flak could make a step into that gap. Less spread, max range buff, done.
2.) Let it work as a low damage alternative for the mortar. E.g. I could very well see myself flying a gat/flak junker as the flak is easier to shoot due to the wider horizontal arc and faster projectile speed. It also requires less time to be shot by the junkers gunineer(s). to make this happen the arming time would have to be removed.

on a side note: I'd like the light flak to have 4 shots again. Frankly, I'm surprised the art team let you get throw with increasing it to 6 in the first place, as its visual appearance has got (a multiple of) 4 shots written all over it.

[RearAdmiralZill]

As you said, you have to take it to a fairly higher level to get that kill (buff, with ammo that increases clip) which is fine. As long as it outdoes an arty in dps by a fair margin then its doing its job. A range boost would only make that better to synergize with the hades/merc.

[Captain Smollett]

The proposed artemis changes won't lessen it's ability to kill at range.

As for a removal of the arming time, I think Muse is pretty set in forcing a utility separation between the mortar and light flak.

[Thomas]

https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3059.0.html (arming time guide)

The Light Flak has an effective range of 225m-875m, which is a pretty narrow band. I'd like to see the range increased to a little over 1000 or so. I think the damage is in a good place, as it's a pretty accurate weapon over a longer range. It's easier to aim and connect hits with than the heavy flak, and it does more damage than the artemis. If it was able to destroy ships in a single clip it would probably push the game to more sniping matches.

It has 6 shots, dealing about 75 explosive damage in it's effective range. That's about 630 hull health damage (1.4 modifier). So it can take out a junker, but that's about it. (Junker has the lowest value of hull health). Buff it and make good ammo choices and it's another story.

Buff alone brings it up to 756 hull health damage over the clip, which is enough to 1 clip most ships. Burst alone takes it to 735 (although it takes longer to empty the clip), and burst+buff 882 damage. Heatsink+buff will take it up to 836-ish. Charged+buff goes to 819.

Normal takes 2.4 seconds to empty the clip, where burst takes 3.3 seconds. Heatsink will take 3.2, and charged will take 2.67 seconds.


All in all it's pretty effective in the damage/time-to-kill department. It can't compete with the mortar of course, but the range generally makes up for that. (mortar is 0-400 meters and travels much slower).

As for the artemis, a full clip only does about 440 total hull damage per clip and takes over 6 seconds to empty the clip. Regardless of buffing and ammo type, the flak comes out on top for damage.