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Art meta is boring

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Thomas:
Countering it really depends on your situation. It basically follows any approach for long range targets. First I'd recommend bringing hydrogen and moonshine (or kerosene).

The most difficult situation is where you have no cloud or terrain cover to dodge spots and shots alike, let alone close distance. You have a few options.


* Fly Directly at them Not the most ideal solution, but if you can't raise or lower you ship enough, it'll work in a pinch. Try to bob up and down a bit, and keep your front pointed at them. You're going to lose components, but your engines should be safe. Rebuild your components to just before fixed. Use moonshine to help close the gap, as they're likely using kerosene to keep distance. Once you get in close, do the last fixing after their volley and dig into them. You're going to take a lot of hits, but if your engineers stay on top of things you have a decent chance.



* Fly above them This only works when the distance between you and them isn't all that much. If you're far away, they can usually aim high enough to hit your for a while. Since the arties can't aim up, use this time to destroy their balloon. If it's a junker (and it probably its), it should be an easy target. Then just walk them down, continuing to pop their balloon. You can use this time to try and maneuver to their blind spot and sink down to do some real damage with other weapons on your ship.



* Fly below them This is actually my preferred method. You usually want a ship that has pretty good balloon cover, like another junker, a goldfish or squid. With a pyra, you'll be taking hull damage, where the galleon and spire balloons don't really provide cover from the front. The mobula for obvious reasons. As you come in low, use some moonshine or kero for speed. As you close the distance they'll have to start lowering themselves to keep the shots up. Your balloon should be soaking up most of it. When you get close enough, activate that hydrogen and sail above them, raining down damage, popping their balloon, whatever. On the change that they also hydrogen and keep pace with you, still shoot them, you're now in close range and their gunners should have a tougher time hitting your components with the rapid up and down changes.
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For going specifically against a junker with triple artemis, I'd recommend the following ships:

Spire: lumberjack, artemis, field gun, other (maybe a close range gun or a flare. Possibly another artemis if you feel like making it weird). The junker is 90% balloon and 8% dreams. This makes your lumberjack (destroyer of balloons and dreams both) super effective. You just need a good shot on it. You can use the field gun and arty to reduce their disable damage, and once they start sinking things get easier.

Pyramidion: Either a gat/mortar or artemis/field gun. You could even mix it up with a hades/flak. The artemis/field gun is the perfect anti-sniper. What you're doing is applying disable on top of piercing and explosive. The front guns on the pyra are trickier to take out than most ships. You can also power them down with the hades/flak, which will also likely pop their balloon. Then you can use one of the methods above to get in close for the gat/mortar. The big advantage is the forward facing (slim profile) guns that are harder to hit.

Goldfish: Carronade and maybe some flamerthrowers or mortar on the sides. Approach flying in low to soak up shots, you have a decent balloon and your rear engine is hard to hit even if they wanted to. Once you start popping you can use your side guns to help shoot downward to give them more problems, and probably finish them with the mortar once their armor breaks, since they're mostly busy fixing the balloon.


I can't give much junker advice, it's not my area of proficiency. Galleon tends to have too much broadside, you're a crazy easy target for their disables. Squid can work great, but your engines are easy targets and your only lifeline. Once they're down, your slim armor won't last long. Mobula might be a good option, but that's not my area of proficiency either. Although the spread out guns and rear engines make it difficult to disable the whole ship.

HamsterIV:
The counter strategies to Artemis spam require a level of skill that many newbies don't have. I miss the days of meta gat/morter and even meta gat/flack. Back then your opponents would feel like they accomplished something by getting a few hits in before you crushed them.  The only thing worse than getting crushed 5-0 is getting crushed 5-0 and not landing a single shot on your opponent.

As for counter strategies:
Thomas covered most of them except the junker and mobula. In those cases you have to take all Artemis and hope your crew are better shots than the enemy. A mobula can outgun a junker with Artemis spam since it can put an extra artemis on target and it is very hard to hit two weapon points with one shot. Mobulas don't work so well when things get brawly which is why junkers tend to be preferred for the Artemis strategy.

Also a galleon charged could counter this strategy if your crew is good enough.  The trick would be to take all close range guns, accept they are going to be disabled, have your engies rebuild them to one hit away from fixed, and wait until you are point blank to last hit and unload.

All these things require a level of skill and understanding of the game that most newbie Artemis victims can't pull off. So on a whole I think the Artemis meta is bad for the game.

Alistair MacBain:
Most tactics with ships are already explained ...
Just want to add mobula to it.
You can either run a closerange setup with double gat and mortar paired with two artemis to cover your engage.
The Artemis will disable their artemis till you are close and when you are close your double gat + greased mortar will kill them pretty much instantly.
Other option is to go double artemis with a merc and just outdmg them on the permahull.
You could also use lesmok artemis on this and just snipe them from outside their range.
Your merc already has the higher range and if you go lesmok artemis you will just outsnipe them.
They will most likely bring the standard burst artemis for maximized disable ...
Your lower deck will probably be a normal gat mortar or anything else thats closerange.

ramjamslam:
A couple of things

1. This topic is misleading, I actually came in here because I thought you meant that the games art is boring!  What!!  Far from it!

2. in response to


--- Quote from: Chango on December 11, 2013, 04:00:40 pm ---I dub the artemis as the noobtube. I tend to use them if I have a very low level crew. So if your Captain is flying a 3 artemis junker, it's because he thinks you are a bunch of noobs!

--- End quote ---

I disagree as I find trying to captain any ship with a trifecta with low level crew to be a crew management nightmare between trying to get the gunner on the bottom deck of the junker to getting the engineer to stop hitting the engines when they are at 90% health and go shoot.  I would much rather take a ship like the goldfish with only 1 gun for teaching crew.

HamsterIV:
I like the trifecta Art junker for noob training, it leads to low stress engagements where a missed mallet/spanner timing will not doom your ship. Forcing two members of your crew to only repair is not a good way to introduce new players to how this game works.

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