Official Rule Suggestion Page

[Byron Cavendish]

Your lack of confidence amuses me Shink.
If the system fails then we have learned not to use it anymore.

Most of the time you just need to try things out.

It's not really a lack of confidence... It's more of a lack of enthusiasm... I'm not particularly excited for the upcoming season, as everything is relying on this league system that feels tacked on rather than integrated into the new competitive scene... I shouldn't be bored when I think of the competitive scene :\

This was one of my first feelings as well...bored, it feels like work.

[Sammy B. T.]

A screenshot and an email is too much work?

[Coldcurse]

yes.
It won't stay at 1 screenshot. I think that they will go further and get to the point that you also need confirmation of the enemy team, to verify that it was a competitive match and not a pub match. meaning you need to do alot more. also you need to plan a time to fight other people which also takes time to do to manage a suiteable time for your team and the enemy team, especially when you're a international clan. you need to keep track that you are not fighting the same guys twice and have to wait when other clans have time. I'll bet everyone wants to fight the museosaurs and ducks first because everyone knows them. This means that popularity plays a role in my opinion plays a big role in this system. I do not like the idea that you need to make a promise with another clan that might end wrong and you gain no points at all because they couldnt make it before the end of the week. In fact, why would you change a system that already worked. meaning that the cogs system isn't a bad idea to use for this kind of thing. you just need to expand the cogs a bit so instead of 1 ladder, you will have 2 that go towards a center cog (just ask me about it and ill explain it in detail for you). using a point system isnt really making things better because there is no fun in it. most of the clans want to win and promote the game so more people will play it. streaming matches is a good way to promote the game, but now we have to make appointments for those matches and they will not be on a regular timebase. This means that you won't get alot of viewers because nobody is going to stay on a stream 24/7 just to watch 1 match each day. having these matches on a scheduled time is a better way to do it. you might complain about timezones then but hey ever heard of regions? you just make an EU cogs and a USA cogs, problem solved. eventually all the teams will fight eachotehr at the end season final. because these matches all will be on a scheduled time, you will have more viewers and thus you can efficiently promote the game. I'm not saying the pointsystem is rubbish, I just notify you that in my opinion it's not the best idea ever.

we play games to have fun and laugh. we want to get the interest of new people and let them get curious and amazed by this game. showing them the crazy things we do is a great way to reach the minds of others.
we're not here for political paperwork, not all of us check the cloud behavior on every map sammy.

[Captain Smollett]

Theoretically a team that played in Cogs and a tournament each week (if the tournament supported it) would fulfill their quota for points.  It's three wins a week however you manage it so theoretically a team could get all their points from organized events.

I used to love scrimmaging though: honestly playing against really good teams and clans was the only way I could truly feel prepared for cogs or other major events and it allowed me to use builds or ideas that I wouldn't want to try on the fly in cogs.

I'm not sure if the Sunday rumble is supporting the system, but if it did any team that played in cogs and the rumble might already have enough points for the weekly limit and a team that did one practice scrim, cogs and the rumble every week assuming they were relatively successful would likely reach their point quotas on a regular basis.

[Sammy B. T.]

It won't stay at 1 screenshot. I think that they will go further and get to the point that you also need confirmation of the enemy team, to verify that it was a competitive match and not a pub match.

It stayed at one throughout last season. I'd imagine if a team was falsifying records they would get called out pretty quickly.

Everything after that is completely irrelevant. Of course clans would have to put in the work organizing scrims, do you expect Muse to do that? Cogs and all other tournaments are not by any stretch of the imagination being replaced by this. In fact, this system is in some ways relying on them as a focal point for matches to be had. I'm not sure if you understand the point system.

[Coldcurse]

It won't stay at 1 screenshot. I think that they will go further and get to the point that you also need confirmation of the enemy team, to verify that it was a competitive match and not a pub match.

It stayed at one throughout last season. I'd imagine if a team was falsifying records they would get called out pretty quickly.

Everything after that is completely irrelevant. Of course clans would have to put in the work organizing scrims, do you expect Muse to do that? Cogs and all other tournaments are not by any stretch of the imagination being replaced by this. In fact, this system is in some ways relying on them as a focal point for matches to be had. I'm not sure if you understand the point system.

I understand the point system but in my opinion it is not a strong system. well you made a system that relies on other systems so you confirmed it's not a strong system at all.
"In fact, this system is in some ways relying on them as a focal point for matches to be had."
in my opinion were better off letting this system work together with the cogs and sunday rumbles.
falsifying information is possible because more clans are being made out of nowhere. i do not expect muse to do all the work for us, but at least we should get a scheduled time for matchess so we can put it on video.
what you forgot about 1 thing is that there has to be a referee watching the match, having only 1 refferee won't be 24/7 online.

if we use pre-scheduled matches for all teams each week then we are going to profit from 3 things:
-solid time frame.
if the times are known way before the fight then you can be 100% sure the other team is there too.
-refferees.
at scheduled events there are always refferees available.
-promoting the game with social media such as twitch.
scheduled events such as cogs or sunday rumbles are always streamed and placed on youtube. with the stream you can get more people interested in the game, which will mean that they will buy the game and play it themselves.

just to keep it short.
the point system isnt a bad idea, but maybe we can change it a bit so we have 3 scheduled events in a week where every team can fight their game for a point. (Points of Icarus events?)
an example:
you fight 1 game at each event that would be a best out of 3 match, the winner gets 1 point. just as simple as that.

using this method you get 100% valid information of matches, 100% more game promoting and 50% better matches (because some teams keep the boring playstyles and some don't).

I hope this answers your question sammy.

[Byron Cavendish]

If it's part of Cogs and the Rumble, great, if the organizers are all for that kind of work. I'm just not interested in having to arrange additional scrims during the week, it's tedious, we don't have the time, and I'm just not interested. That's part of our issue with last season. The Gents had what 3 points? And in reality was probably closer to the twenties... why? Because we just didn't care enough, too much stress to worry about some overly complicated system.

I get that some people don't feel that way, but this is how I feel, not here for paperwork sorry. Sammy, you made a Saturday event that I immediately signed up for. Whatever differences the Gents and Ducks have I was immediately in, because IT WAS SIMPLE. That's why I proposed a ladder system for in-game. Don't give me that too much coding jargon, they just added an intricate rating system for matches, you're telling me you can't make a simple ladder?

I think the issue is lately Muse is trying to make things grand. We ask for a simple fjords and dunes spawn fix, we get this overly-complicated epic spawn re-work. We want a simple competitive system, they write a document that could rival a bill of Congress. Were not looking for some Sistine Chapel of ladders here, but a simple one should be able to integrate.
 

[Byron Cavendish]

Shink, I think a late start would be next to impossible to rise to top regardless of a participation point or not.

Byrong, they would need to also put in some sort of verification system otherwise they would get flooded by "competitive matches." That would be needlessly complicated and hard to implement. You know what is easy, screenshot and email.

Not really, create a ladder, register your team, team gets accepted and authenticated. Only that team gets access. And worst case, so what if a bunch of teams registered? One of two things would happen: there would be an epic new interest in the competitive scene, or those registered teams would quickly fall apart, never compete, and never accrue points to advance. Or just get disabled after a time-out.

Again, they can develop a working rating/matchmaking system, they can develop a bounty hunter ladder, but developing a working functional competitive ladder is out of reach? Comon... Any serious game with an e-sport has a functional ladder, and as I said it doesn't have to be an overly thought out too intricate, too grand for it's own good ladder. Simply, and functional.

I'd much rather have them use their resources on that then some silly competitive rules and silly spawn fix that isn't a fix.

[Coldcurse]

I agree with Byron.

things are being made too complicated.
keeping it simple seems to be tricky for everyone.

[Skrimskraw]

why dont we just invite all teams to a seasonal tournament, those who can make it signs up, those who can't dont sign up.

thats simple lol

[Sammy B. T.]

I understand the point system but in my opinion it is not a strong system. well you made a system that relies on other systems so you confirmed it's not a strong system at all.
"In fact, this system is in some ways relying on them as a focal point for matches to be had."
in my opinion were better off letting this system work together with the cogs and sunday rumbles.

That is exactly what it does, works with other events. Imagine this scenario. The Didgeridoo schedules one scrimmage in the week and wins that, one point. Then they play a Saturday Cogs match which they win, bringing them to two points. Then they participate in a SR and win their first match but get knocked out in their second giving them their third point.

All the point system is doing is recognizing competitive wins across a wide spectrum of events ranging from traditional organized events as well as organized scrimmages.

falsifying information is possible because more clans are being made out of nowhere.

I can't imagine a clan not getting held responsible by other clans. I would suggest making the screenshots public or at least accessible.

i do not expect muse to do all the work for us, but at least we should get a scheduled time for matchess so we can put it on video.

Saturday and Sunday events will still completely exist.

what you forgot about 1 thing is that there has to be a referee watching the match, having only 1 refferee won't be 24/7 online.

Keyvias said on page three of this thread "Skirmishes don't need refs."

if we use pre-scheduled matches for all teams each week then we are going to profit from 3 things:
-solid time frame.
if the times are known way before the fight then you can be 100% sure the other team is there too.
-refferees.
at scheduled events there are always refferees available.
-promoting the game with social media such as twitch.
scheduled events such as cogs or sunday rumbles are always streamed and placed on youtube. with the stream you can get more people interested in the game, which will mean that they will buy the game and play it themselves.

All of these will continue to happen as long as people continue to schedule weekend events.

just to keep it short.
the point system isnt a bad idea, but maybe we can change it a bit so we have 3 scheduled events in a week where every team can fight their game for a point. (Points of Icarus events?)
an example:
you fight 1 game at each event that would be a best out of 3 match, the winner gets 1 point. just as simple as that.

using this method you get 100% valid information of matches, 100% more game promoting and 50% better matches (because some teams keep the boring playstyles and some don't).

I hope this answers your question sammy.

All of that is great and is in no ways contrary to what has been proposed.


------------------------------------------


Byron, if you have a PrtScn button and gmail it should be less than thirty seconds to do "paperwork." Just hit the PrtScn button at the end of match. Compose an email, hit Ctrl+V and title the email. How on Earth is that too much? Now I would be all for matches that are recorded as part of the events to be able to be added to the scoreboard automatically with just the TO saying "hey muse, here's the points and stream." However, not all matches are streamed and happen Saturday and Sunday afternoon.

My Saturday event was designed to be an event to compliment this "complicated system" as it was just gathering some groups together for scrims that would have counted for points if the system had been in place. This point system doesn't stop any of these events, it simply rewards their wins and rewards games outside of these events.

Also I think it is worth mention, the top ten teams get into the invitational and then two teams are voted in. Its hardly restrictive.

[Captain Smollett]

You can have a regularly scheduled scrim that both teams agree to show up to every week.  Cake and the Paddling used to meet once a week for a friendly scrimmage that was always loads of fun.  It was a great chance to give opportunities for our newer competitive players to get experience as well as try out new builds.

I think it would be awesome if refs or tournament organizers submitted screenshots, that probably would make a lot of people happier.

Also Byron never forget the power of delegation.  Perhaps there's a crew member who's itching for the chance to prove their awesomeness and reliability by being the official screenshot taker and submitter.

[DMaximus]

My mind is completely boggled by some of the comments here. This system is about as simple as it gets.

Step 1. Play matches throughout the week with other competitive teams. (<- please note, this is what the entire system is trying to encourage. more competitive play)
Step 2. Take a screen shot of the results of the match (Pro tip: Steam's screenshot button is F12)
Step 3. Using the power of the interwebs, e-fax it to Muse.
Step 4. Profit

As an experiment, I started a timer, took a screenshot and emailed it to myself. It took slightly under 17 seconds. If that's too difficult for someone to manage then I'm not sure how you handle walking all the way to the bathroom before making your morning ablutions.

The player ranking stuff Muse implemented is fairly straightforward code wise, they already kept track of most of that for achievements. Any clan tracking would have to first include in-game clan creation and then some crazy form of tracking which honestly isn't worth anyone's time since the competitive scene is such a small portion of the player base.

[Dutch Vanya]

Coming from someone who doesn't play competitively i agree the tournament systems are being made too complicated. I read basically everything on the forums and i have no idea how they work, and everywhere i see people disagreeing about how they should work. So it is probably best to aim for classically simple tournaments.

[Captain Smollett]

I don't think it's overly complicated, I think it's just being made to sound like that and the 18 page rule sheet likely isn't helping much.

Maybe Muse should put out a shortened version with the main points and link to the long form document for those that are curious about the nitty gritty.