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The buff hammer, and guns.
RearAdmiralZill:
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on November 26, 2013, 04:13:57 pm ---Before we go about nerfing the buff hammer, shouldn't we first establish that in its current state it has issues. Sure you get the pro of extra damage. However you still have the cons of
Time spent buffing. During this time you are giving up other potential things you should be doing.
Short duration of buff. Requires timing and makes it difficult (though not impossible) to keep up during a fight
Use of a repair tool slot. A buff engineer has to either give up specializing his repair or rebuild or has to sacrifice a fire tool.
I think these make up for the 20% strength.
--- End quote ---
Pre buffing negates the first con. Subsequent buffing happens during reloads.
The short duration yes, but I know of no gun that takes longer then a buff cycle to unload a clip of ammo, which could equate to a downed hull armor, full disable of a ship, or a kill.
That's a weak con to me given that I value a buff engie on most of my boats anyway. Sure you sacrifice something but buffs don't only work on guns. They will still be valuable. 20% is a rather large boon to a gun in any aspect.
Captain Phil:
--- Quote from: Sammy B. T. on November 26, 2013, 04:13:57 pm ---Before we go about nerfing the buff hammer, shouldn't we first establish that in its current state it has issues. Sure you get the pro of extra damage. However you still have the cons of
Time spent buffing. During this time you are giving up other potential things you should be doing.
Short duration of buff. Requires timing and makes it difficult (though not impossible) to keep up during a fight
Use of a repair tool slot. A buff engineer has to either give up specializing his repair or rebuild or has to sacrifice a fire tool.
I think these make up for the 20% strength.
--- End quote ---
Time spent buffing, Sammy, you know most guns can be kept constantly buffed during reload cycles, and the fact that before most battles all the guns are pre-buffed to get a quick kill. Point is, it is still more worth while to run buff engi then to go gunner (sorry for bringing up class vs class Zill, but currently the buff hammer is a big selling point to not have gunners on a ship, so it is bound to come up.) Also, I would not call this idea a nerf, but a repurposing of the tool. Changing it from a tool to assist in kills to a tool to assist in defense.
RearAdmiralZill:
--- Quote ---(sorry for bringing up class vs class Zill, but currently the buff hammer is a big selling point to not have gunners on a ship, so it is bound to come up.)
--- End quote ---
I know so I can't fault you entirely. I just don't want this spotlighted as an attack on engies but rather as you put it, a look at the buff hammer on its own.
Captain Phil:
Don't know about you guys, but anyone else thinking that having the buff hammer reduce damage to guns may also help alleviate the arti problem going on too?
Sammy B. T.:
First there would need to be an artemis problem. But honestly I feel like reduction of incoming damage would then make the buff only really useful against disablers and its not exactly like the disabler is the meta.
I am not saying the cons of buffing can't be worked around, otherwise I wouldn't use the double buff. However,t hose work arounds require skill and practice and can still cause issues even among seasoned veterans. It makes ammo trickier, it slows down your fire rate and accuracy as you're not spending the reload time getting your next shot aimed.
If all I gained was a more resilient gun then I would never let a buff on my ship in most situations. Decrease the damage, perhaps, I would need to spend some time crunching numbers.
I know its not supposed to be a class vs class thread, but continuing as they have with weapon and ammo specialization, gunners will be equal to buffengineers in more and more cases.
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