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Game Duration in the Competitive Scene

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Wundsalz:
First off: Thanks for the match, Gents! Thanks for enduring it, casters and viewers and I'd like to apologize to the teams, which evenings we've ruined.

My two cents on the match:
We've never played a full sniper loadout capeable of outsniping sniper builds. The gents have got one of the best sniper loadouts out there and know how to use it - hence I think it was  a good time for us to give it a try.
Also I've recalled a comment (form brick, I think) who referred to the Gents sniper loadout as a "lost art form"(or something along the line). An opinion for which I've got rather mixed feelings. I was kind of happy to be able to illustrate what happens to matches if both teams refuse to engage. Note though that we've not intentionally streched the matches to make a point. The duration of the matches has been a result of a consequent commitment to the most efficient playstyle of the chosen builds.

On a more general note:
I personally didn't play a lot since the release of the latest patch, but from what I've seen so far brawling has been significantly nerfed by reducing the overall efficiency of mid-close range weapons and due to the range nerf of close range weapons in particular. Hence close range tactics are way less efficient - These days it's just way riskier to rush in through sniper fire relying on that quick close range kill, especially if your opponent knows how to keep their ships in shape. Overall I think the balance has been shifted in favour of all those classical long range weapons - merc, arte, hades, heavy flak and Lumber - especially with regards to the competitive scene. While some of those weapons are hard to learn, they're absolutely deadly once mastered.
The last patch tried to address complaints about carronades, which have been probably a bit too efficient on most public games but quite balanced once team play was included to matches. The reduced killing speed of classical close range hull strip+explosive combos make engineering mistakes more forgiving. However as a side effect the patch severly harmed the viability of brawl builds in games of higher caliber which isn't a good thing, imo. Frankly I liked the 1.3.2 balance way better than the current one.

Regarding the cog organization:
I'd like to see some sort of time limit for future rumble engagements, but can't provide a good idea for an implementation. Especially as I think a shift to more sniper focused builds can be expected, which will likely result in an increased average match time.


--- Quote from: Shinkurex on November 04, 2013, 06:52:14 pm ---Topic split to keep things organized

--- End quote ---
Hm, I'm not sure whether that was a clever move... the entire discussion revolves around Sunday Rumble #13 after all.

James T. Kirk:
I'm hugely in favor of some sort of time limit.

We can all agree that two sniper teams at near equal skill level take a fair bit longer to get 5 kills than two brawly teams at near-equal skill level.

Kills from a sniper build are much more precious, as one missed heavy flak could spell another 30 minutes of game time, while a missed mortar warrants another 30 seconds.

While I believe a lower point limit on sniper games would be the best option, there would need to be clear rules as to what makes a game "sniper."

Because of inevitable gray area, I think a general time limit would be best.

My limited experience planning and participating in events leaves me weary to suggest a time, but I'm sure somebody out there has one in mind.

Feast on Thrones:
Well I would like to throw my thoughts into this melting pot too. Firstly an apology; to the casters, to those spectators who left the stream because it was dull and to the other teams who could not participate because we took so long. It was not our objective to sit and play for over 3 hours without stopping. It was not our goal to break the rumble. But from my perspective the first game felt like it was done in 20 minutes, the one after 30. It was a non stop manoeuvring, tactical battle of brains as much of braun and that was exhilarating, though I can understand it might not have been first class spectating. I haven't seen the cast but I intend to, so I can look at my performance and also analyse tactics. Preparing myself for the 'best' 3 hours of my life....

The consensus as I see it thus far is that most people are in favour of time constraints for multiple reasons. The most compelling reason as I see it has been well articulated by Shinkurex. Long dull matches means no viewers, no viewers means no casters, no casters means fewer matches and the cycle continues down and down and down. But time constraints may not be the most effective way of keeping the match times down to a reasonable length because it will exclude by its very nature the builds that you are able to bring. Personally I like the sniping, we have trained our ass off to try and reach a decent level of sniping play for the competitive scene. It is something reminiscent of the old times, like Brick said and Wundsalz commented. It would be a shame to let that go. Brawling had taken a nerf but I do not think it is as extensive or as crippling as many cry about but it would be a shame to see just brawling which I think is a possibility if harsh time constraints are implemented.

But I would agree something needs to change. If matches are taking a long time lets say pushing the 45 minutes or 50 minutes mark, casters or judges should state that this match becomes the only one if those participating agree. But even this has serious disadvantages. The really great thing about competitive play is that if your first match goes badly, you often adapt, change your tactics, change the loadout. It is great to see and spectate teams coming up with innovative counters to a build. The matches often go to and fro and that is the beauty for me at least to see this happening. I worry that this will be lost and it will be a monumental shame. The way the rhinos came back in that second game with that combination to complete disable us with art / merc combo was brilliant. And for me that is what makes the game so competitive and so ingenious.

So the question is what do we as a community do to find a middle ground? I don't think there is one right answer, but there needs to be a lot of deliberation here to make sure that nobody is suffering and that sunday night's events are not repeated again too often. And lets put this into context, its not every week that something like this happens.

Shinkurex:
I think I'd be much more in favor of a sudden death mechanic than a straight time limit... say after 45 Min, the next point wins. It doesn't actually restrict sniping matches, but it saves spectators from watching a 1 - 1 score crawl all the way to 5 - 4.

DMaximus:

--- Quote from: Shinkurex on November 04, 2013, 10:36:58 pm ---I think I'd be much more in favor of a sudden death mechanic than a straight time limit... say after 45 Min, the next point wins. It doesn't actually restrict sniping matches, but it saves spectators from watching a 1 - 1 score crawl all the way to 5 - 4.

--- End quote ---

I like this. It doesn't significantly alter the game and it doesn't have as many obvious ways to be abused as a time limit.

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