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1.3.3 PILOT, PILOT SKILLS, AND SHIP BALANCE
Crafeksterty:
--- Quote from: The Djinn on October 28, 2013, 04:51:19 pm ---
Probably because the Mobula's real strength was the ability to easily get 3-4 light guns on a single target. With the changes, the Spire can easily get 2-3 light guns and a medium gun on a single target, making it have strictly more firepower than the Mobula, while also being easier to Engineer on (especially now that the hull is in an easier spot to get 2 people on without sacrificing your ability to quickly switch back to shooting).
It sort of leaves the Mobula high and dry, as it's role of "concentrated firepower on a single target" is now better done by the Spire in virtually all cases.
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Yupp, exactly what i argued about on spire forums.
--- Quote ---I HATE the trend of "foward-pointing guns are the way to go"
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Read my posts on https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2574.0.html
I argued constantly, even on an interview that the Spire simply needed an acceleration buff. The ship now is viable in many cases, i have to admit. The right gun facing forward didnt change much and simply made it more comfortable, but the lower left changed ALOT. Making it better than something else on this game (clearly talking about the mobula).
But if the spire were to stay like how it is noe in 1.3.3. Then ide suggest the mobula need some heavy stat changes regarding his health.
There is this trick on the mobula where the captain can jump on the gun above him which is usefull but thats not how i picture the mobula used.
If you look at the galleon, it is pretty much a heavy gun mobula, while the mobula is a light gun galleon. If anything the mobula in a way needs health change. It is as squishy, no MORE squishy than a spire. This multitool that is the mobula has a hard time maintaning being evasive because baloons are so costly to injure or have injured.
This will then derail me into talking about baloons being universal on ships and hard to repair.
The baloon is now much easier to take down. Not with the carronades but, just everything. Hades are a new contender to baloon destroying. And sort of works better than the light carronades. My main issue with the baloon is how long it takes to repair. Would be nice to have the mallet/Pipe wrench simply heal the baloon x2 more than what they usually do.
The descriptions could say "Heals 225 on hull and components, 450 on baloon". Now that i think of it, would be a bit too strong. 1.5? "337 on baloon".
Ok back to mobula. The good thing about the mobula is that the hull side has the hull closer to the gun than how the baloon is closer to the engine (to the back).
This is allready an obviouse design choice. BUT it is still hard to maintain and it looses its firepower if it does get injured.
Which leaves to the tactic of glass cannoning. Killing before getting killed.
With a drastic change of hullhealth on the mobula we could see that tactic where a mobula then would out damage a spire despite the spire having better ways of damaging the mobula because the mobula will gladly then take a bit of damage for the sake of killing the spire.
The Djinn:
--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on November 04, 2013, 09:45:07 am ---There is this trick on the mobula where the captain can jump on the gun above him which is usefull but thats not how i picture the mobula used.
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A point we differ on. I feel that gun should be made more accessible to the pilot. It seems the Mobula is supposed to be the weapons platform of Guns of Icarus, and I can't think of a better way to help shape that distinction than giving the pilot ready access to a gun. I know the ability of the top-right Spire gun to fire forward has already made me hop on the weapon as a pilot and use it as a stationary sniping platform when against teams where I can get away with that.
--- Quote ---If you look at the galleon, it is pretty much a heavy gun mobula, while the mobula is a light gun galleon.
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I'd always considered the Galleon as a area denial and/or sniping ship rather than the offensive weapons platform I think of the Mobula as. Maybe that's just me.
--- Quote ---With a drastic change of hullhealth on the mobula we could see that tactic where a mobula then would out damage a spire despite the spire having better ways of damaging the mobula because the mobula will gladly then take a bit of damage for the sake of killing the spire.
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This might solve the issue, yes...but I think there are more elegant ways to solve the problem.
The way I see it we've got an issue of a large, relatively un-mobile forward facing weapons platform that is difficult to Engineer on. Which is basically what the Spire was, although the movement of the hull has, in my experience, made it easier to keep alive. Our current defining difference is the 5 light guns vs 3 light + 1 Heavy, the slight emphasis of turning on the Spire vs. vertical movement on the Mobula, and the layout of the floor plan. To me that's not quite enough of a distinction to really sell the two as decidedly separate and equally useful ships, especially now that the Spire has easy gun access for the pilot (on a gun that can shoot forwards, no less). While the ships are definitely different, they conceptually tread on each other's toes (in my mind, at least).
A general question to the community, then: How do you see the Mobula? What would you want to see a floating gun platform used for, and how would you like to see it handled? MUSE has stated in this thread that they're looking at the Mobula, so maybe we can help them narrow down what we'd like to see the Mobula become.
Serenum:
--- Quote from: The Djinn on November 04, 2013, 10:17:41 am ---
A general question to the community, then: How do you see the Mobula? What would you want to see a floating gun platform used for, and how would you like to see it handled? MUSE has stated in this thread that they're looking at the Mobula, so maybe we can help them narrow down what we'd like to see the Mobula become.
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As I said before, I'd like to see a complete redesign when it comes to gun placement.
First I'll explain my logic: front facing guns are boring when you are piloting a ship and I play mainly pilot. I have the most fun when I can make hit-and-run tactics, which are best accomplished with side guns or even rear guns.
Plus, most ships already have front facing guns and the Mobula is getting really similar to the Spire right now.
What I would like to see for the mobula is more of a side weapon configuration, 3 light guns on each side with trifecta possibile if the enemy is in the sweet spot, no front gun nor back gun, but the side weapons can fire a bit towards the back if the weapon has enough firing arc.
Alternatively make it REALLY crazy and simply change place of the guns: all facing back! It would be unique and could be open to some interesting loadouts and strategies, plus combo ability with things like tar, harpoons+moonshine to "tow" ships (assuming it works like some people say), mines and so on...
Sammy B. T.:
--- Quote ---What I would like to see for the mobula is more of a side weapon configuration, 3 light guns on each side with trifecta possibile if the enemy is in the sweet spot, no front gun nor back gun, but the side weapons can fire a bit towards the back if the weapon has enough firing arc.
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Wouldn't that functionally just make the mobula a bigger Junker?
-Mad Maverick-:
here is something nuts:
mobula has BIG exposed baloon = weakness
fairly slow in a straight line = Weakness
fair turning rate = Average
Great vertical movement= Advantage
Weak Armor= Weakness
what if we changed its armor and made it more like goldfish level with its super exposed baloon and terrible repair points it would be FAR from a tank but the buff COULD make it an interesting brawler, kind of like "the spire for close range"
MAYBE if we needed to we could even take its turning rate down a little bit....
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