Author Topic: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE  (Read 282453 times)

zlater75@hotmail.com

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #225 on: November 01, 2013, 12:01:00 pm »
I agree on the sight. As that is at back of the weapon it has the fixed sight up front so the more you lower the rear the higher range which is why compared to the LJ that number should be the other way around since no fixed front point but you need to lead on the height not the weapon itself.
If there were a fixed reticule up front on the LJ and the sight could be moved up and down (front and back keys) it would work like the sight on pic. Would be an ironsight weapon with adjustable range sight.
Gunner would still have to estimate the sideways movement lead.

Offline Sprayer

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #226 on: November 01, 2013, 12:02:03 pm »
Awkm, you need to use a sight that is moved entirely and kept in line with the gunner for reference, not one where the relative position of eye to sight changes. Each scope of rifles would be suitable. If I remember correct, my G36 had a few orientation crosses, one for ~200m (the middle one), for ~400m, for ~600m and one for ~800m (which was the lowest). Other than that, sights on tank or ship cannons would be a better reference, since most of those move in line with the gunner too.

Other than that, do the bigger gun hitboxes make it harder to spot enemy ships? I know they make it harder to use certain shortcuts around the own ship, but I always assumed it was possible to spot through every part of the own ship.

Offline awkm

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #227 on: November 01, 2013, 12:07:22 pm »
There has always been a bug with component hit boxes that deny you spotting.  Now that they're bigger, it's just more obvious.  This is being worked on.

Okay, sights are beyond my knowledge.  I'll let the art director know what's going on.  Seems like a few of you have expertise in using these actual weapons so we may ask for your input later.

Otherwise, I can't promise any fixes since these are purely aesthetic and are controlled by the artists who are currently very very busy doing the new Adventure mode teaser.

zlater75@hotmail.com

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #228 on: November 01, 2013, 12:29:15 pm »
 :)

Here's a more detailed description. Note firing positions and firing at lower half of the page. http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/M203.html

This sight, the G3/Hk33 40mm Grenade sight, might be a more practical reference. http://www.dandbmilitaria.com/images/D/DSC00556.jpg
There you see the higher up on the sight the further it flies and drops so it can be aimed so get the ammodrop work hand in hand with the numbers.

Offline Shinkurex

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #229 on: November 01, 2013, 12:32:15 pm »
Hey guys,

Lets keep this thread about Gun balance, and discuss the sights here:

https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2796.msg47733.html#msg47733

Much appreciated
Shink

Offline Kriegson

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #230 on: November 02, 2013, 08:30:31 am »
Probably already poked at a bit, but the changes to the hades make it a far easier weapon to use. Even novice gunners should be able to plink away with it, and while it really shines at distance it still seems pretty effective in a brawl due to the RoF. I wonder if we'll be seeing devious things like burst or fire hades...

Offline Sprayer

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #231 on: November 02, 2013, 12:44:15 pm »
I saw quite a lot "novice gunners" still fail as hard as only hitting one shot of their entire clip at ~500m... repeatedly and with different gunners.

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #232 on: November 02, 2013, 12:48:25 pm »
I'm horrendous with it but outside of a few weapons I am bad with most.

Offline Sprayer

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #233 on: November 02, 2013, 12:52:59 pm »
Well, it does have a projectile speed compareable to that of a heavy flak, so I guess most people will have trouble shooting it well.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #234 on: November 02, 2013, 01:01:05 pm »
In all honesty, though I was pretty catastrophic with the Hades in 1.3.2, I'm hitting reliably with it at mid to mid-long with greased now. It's gotten waaay easier to shoot.

zlater75@hotmail.com

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #235 on: November 02, 2013, 06:29:12 pm »
Personal honest thoughts on some of the guns atm.

Mercury field gun: Pretty boring feel to it. Way too easy to hit with. Suggest increase zoom for very long range, make it harder to hit midrange and give it a small recoil if possible. Then it would feel more interesting. Used it a full match and had no misses any range. Otherwise ok angle. Loading sound like sniper would be nice.

Echidna flak : might need just a little slight buff. feels a bit light for medium range.

Heavy flak : Feels powerful once you get hang of lead and ammotype drops. Takes some time to get used to.

Hades : still feel same way as earlier post.

Lumberjack : sight is fine. numbers correct way. O.o definately a experienced gunners gun.

Charged is ok on the other weapons, i think, but the hwatcha.


Offline Crafeksterty

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #236 on: November 04, 2013, 10:30:26 am »
I want to fill in my 2 cents as i see that im late for the discussion and a hefty debate.


The Hades is a bit too strong. It was allready good in terms of damage, it just needed to be easier to use. Now it is very strong and sorta negates the gattling.

But this is also where the gattling shines.


Alot of people seem to skip over usage over stats. For example: The mercury change when it was changed made it so that 2 ships with a mercury are sort of even. When the other ship is lower than its opponent it has an advantage because the Mercury Can aim up and not down.  So by the time the other ship is even with the opponent, they have allready disabled their merc.

The opposite goes for the artemis as it cannot aim up.   Now take the knowledge of how the gattling is seppoused to be used versus the hades.



The hades is easily dodged with the intention of dodging it. Specialy if you have a Mobula, Spire, Goldfish, Squid.

With this in mind, you now have a small idea on how to avoid it but still not combat it.
With gattling equipped and its changes, try and pry out the best of it with ammo changes. The best i found was actually a buffed greased gattling. Or just greased. Ok you have the DPS of the gattling down.  Lets put it to use on a match versus longer range guns.

What ship do you have? What map is it? Choose the best tools and fight the weapons your fighting against with the weapons you have.
Close range with a Gattling up against a Hades renders the hades Obsolete! Because of its arming time ofc.
(btw my post is starting to sound more like a pilot thing)
But you are not alone. You have a teamate, how can you use your teamate to close in? Is there a way of grabbing attention?
Etc etc, it gets very indepth and all it needs is execution and no bad luck (Most executions of our get boched because one of us hit a terrain a bit too hard and lost a few nice seconds)

Being a very Anti-Pyra sense a very long time, i am now interrested on trying the pyra as it actually kills quicker. I mean, the gat nerf definetly nerfed the Pyra, but when the pyra gets close with a gat, it kills quicker than it did before, and most importantly much more fairly.
A pyra with gat and mort with an added ram just Slam Jams.   Especially behind ships.
I have to honestly say that an ambushing pyra looks like the intended pyra.

Gattling on ships like the junker or the squid is actually alot better too. Think of the gattling as a hull flamethrower now.
And before, the gattling was almost mandatory if your doing hull fighting on any ship.

For the most part, greased is actually used now guys! And it is devestating. You shouldnt be using the mortar on hull armor anymore, that has to be timed now. The gattling will open the door for health. Just get in close.



TL;DR
Im just saying that the gat nerf that hit people hard is not hard, but please try and work a way around it. All ive seen almos is stat comparrisons. But the hades doing that damage is a bit excessive. 2 hadez shots is greater than 1 merc shot. A lesmok hadez has 6 shots leading to greater than 3 Mercury shots. And used on the baloon makes it too good.

There definetly has to be a tweak between the armor piercer weapons, but for now. Know that the gattling still is rocking hard if used correctly. It is different now.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 10:35:59 am by Crafeksterty »

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #237 on: November 04, 2013, 11:37:50 am »
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2763.msg48154.html#msg48154

- Gatling Gun: Decreased jitter to 2.25 degrees (from 3), increased rate of fire to 8.3 bullets/s (from 5b/s), increased clip size to 82 (from 80)
- Hades: Decreased direct hit chance of causing 1 fire charge to 25% (from 45%), Increased AoE hit chance of causing 1 fire charge to 40% (from 35%)

Offline -Mad Maverick-

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #238 on: November 04, 2013, 01:49:44 pm »
I am replying to this before I've tested the hotfix and it is possible that the hot fix fixed this problem.  also I'm not sure if you are writing this before or after the hot fix, if you are writing this BEFORE read on, if after ignore my statements because they are made out of ignorance.  to say the the Gatling strips armor fastER now than previously is wrong.  the stats prove you wrong and everyone's testing through experience says you're wrong.  now again if you are referring to the new hot fix changes then to that I have no response yet.

Offline Thomas

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Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« Reply #239 on: November 04, 2013, 04:54:19 pm »
Well, post hot fix I'm a little concerned. The dps is certainly higher than post patch, but also higher than pre-patch as well.
Against armor:

pre-patch: 85 dmg/s (against armor, while firing) (60 dmg/s including reload)
post-patch: 66.25 dmg/s (while firing) (50.47 dmg/s including reload)
post-hotfix: 108.65 dmg/s (while firing) (72.43 dmg/s including reload) (Also appears to be 8.2 bullets a second and not 8.3, but my timing could be off)

It used to take 12 seconds to empty the clip, then after the damage drop and clip size increased it took 16; now it only takes 10.


I'm not entirely sure what happened there. The gun is now more accurate and strips armor faster than before; although the range is still less than pre-patch.