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1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
HamsterIV:
As a recent victim of Sammy B T's brawling junker I can attest that brawling is still effective in this game. The Gatling gun + heavy clip however is not. I ran a 2x Gatling Pyramididon with heavy clip and experienced gunners and was only able to strip the hull armor off a junker after two reloads. Experimentation with greased/charged ammo may be in order but for now the light carronade is taking the place of the Gatling gun for my close range fighting builds.
I am in Garou's camp about the skilled Gat use and the pride one takes in mastering that weapon for mid range. The old Gat will be mourned. A new meta will eventually arise for Awkm to one day crush beneath his Nerf hammer, such is the way of things. I am just glad the Artemis wasn't touched.
Garou:
--- Quote from: Subarco on October 29, 2013, 10:34:31 am ---This is a question for people in the competitive scene.
How do you propose to balance it so that brawling with gat/mort becomes viable once again among the upper tier teams, but not have it dominate the pub scene for the lower to mid tier teams?
--- End quote ---
TBH, that is not, nor never was it the discussion I intended to have, and seems to be a question for another thread.
My intention in referring to competitive teams was simply to eliminate variables. If both teams are on equal footing in regards to skill and coordination, it's a lot easier to discuss balance in terms of tactics and loadouts.
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill --- Now to the complaints about short vs long. Idk. Need to play and see. It's easy to look at the changes and throw up your hands and say "MEH, LONG RANGE OP." In reality, it'll require more finesse to get close and utilize the short loadouts.
--- End quote ---
Personally, at no point am I saying 'long range OP'. I feel it has a sufficient skill/reward payoff. I'm merely referring to viable methods of countering it that don't involve using it. Let's face it, if you're going to get into the competitive scene, countering the long range galleon is a thought at the front of the collective mind of any clan.
Sammy B. T.:
Hamster's gatling pyra was actually very useful for me to see the new weakness of the gatlings. It felt like a one gatling pyra.
-Mad Maverick-:
--- Quote from: awkm on October 29, 2013, 11:43:13 am ---
offering other guns the ability to disable too like gat/carronade since they have piercing damage. They might also need some ProjectileExpansion... MAYBE.
--- End quote ---
Awkm i never said you dont care, and i dont think anyone else did either. what i said was i have a sinking suspicion that the kind of game i and some of the other brawlers want to play is not the kind of game you are intending to design. that isnt like a shot at you or an insult or anything! let me use and analogy from another game type;
in a FPS you have many types of guns and loadouts and depending on the map certain loadouts are better than others. certain players like to utilize the best weapon/loadout for the specific map they are on. some players though, like to play a certain playstyle sooo much that they will use it regardless of map even if to their detriment. in an FPS the "shotgun" is a high risk high reward type gun, and on specific maps one could argue it is downright dumb to use. The nice thing about using a shotgun is though if you are one of those players that refuses to bend to convention and are able to close the gap on a longer range gun you are rewarded with a quick kill.
it seems clear to me awkm that you guys at muse dont want a "shotgun" to exist. (please use the analogy, the caronade is not a "shotgun") in other words, it seems to me you do not like the mechanic of an acrobatic player working hard to get close and being rewarded with a devastating dps. it seems like you would rather reward them with devastating disable. (which a close range that trumps the long range doesnt exist yet)
now if my assumption is incorrect, that you actually do want to see close range be viable you are doing it wrong. see close range NEEDS to feel OP at close range! no one complains about being one shot-ed by a shotgun at point blank, or they shouldnt. shortening the range of the gat mort made sense to me but cutting its damage by 25% and having killed its RoF many times over at this point makes no sense. the shorter the range you make a weapon the more dmg output it should be given.
at this point no short range weapon, disabling or otherwise, is better than its longer range counterpart (see LJ vs caro) that is just a fact. all i am saying is i believe that has been done by design. nautical combat in the air is not a bad thing its just not my thing
zlater75@hotmail.com:
My 2 bullets.. i mean cents.
I must say i'm not that experienced nor can i realize what the game mechanics were for over 2½ months ago. but what the feel is after the patch for some guns i can try say personal views on as gunner (when allowed).
+ Hades with burst now is more accurate, drops less and has range close to lesmok. Or so it feels. It was a great gun when it got released and still is. I bet more people will use it now. To be ok with aiming it gives the work reward some emphasis, which i like. greased ammo feels fairly similar to before. it was good before. Need to try heavy sometime too. it's still a slow ammotype so that needs some fancy aiming to get those hits in properly at mid range.
+ Heatsink on heavy carronade is such fun when in fairly close range. Also makes one want to try what it's like on other weapons.
+ Mortar is still a great support weapon and feels ok. The combination was very common so i understand that maybe to get other weapons used for a change something had to be done. Like with ships for balance.
- Hwatcha and charged: The charged ammo feels totally different from before the patch. does not give the same up close volley award as before for some reason and feels like half a clip. So with a typical loadout of heavy, burst, charged on it i rarely use charged due to it.
- Gatling with heavy was nice before and appealing as it gave you that extra bonus on targeting and damage. But maybe the range was a bit too long then and now it feels very short. The AoE should be pretty small but maybe give it some slight upward recoil instead of the largeish AoE? DPS can be as is if given more ammo and a little range increase imho. I'd also love to feel some more difference between the ammotypes, but too early to tell since it takes time to get used to all changes to get the right feel.
Glad about the diversity and opening options. A bit disappointed in the rangenerf for gat.
Against sniper galleons i feel a squid combo with fish/junker combo or another squid is effective. A duel of heavy sniping skills would be great to watch. :)
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