Main > Gameplay
1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
awkm:
--- Quote from: Nidh on October 29, 2013, 11:28:33 am ---Disablers are integral to team compositions, YAY!
--- End quote ---
Yes. Disabling wasn't a big thing before because it was far easier to flat-out kill someone with gat/mortar. Hopefully these changes will make disabling a more viable and perhaps needed strategy, at least at higher level play anyway. One thing I'll monitor is time to rebuild guns and guns (since that was made difficult as a way to make disabling more useful) and also offering other guns the ability to disable too like gat/carronade since they have piercing damage. They might also need some ProjectileExpansion... MAYBE.
This is only an idea. Don't freak out yet.
Echoez:
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on October 29, 2013, 10:10:34 am ---Carronades had it coming. Now one might think of lesmok over heavy, which balances their "long range."
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Oh you mean giving up more than half your maximum damage for a meager range extention that you can't even use fully cause half your pellets will mostly miss? I mean, not to sound rude, but do enlighten me on how the hell is this even remotely useful? With the long ass reload this gun got going for it and the ammo reduction of Lesmok, you might as well bang your head against the wall, it will do more damage.
--- Quote from: RearAdmiralZill on October 29, 2013, 10:10:34 am ---Now to the complaints about short vs long. Idk. Need to play and see. It's easy to look at the changes and throw up your hands and say "MEH, LONG RANGE OP." In reality, it'll require more finesse to get close and utilize the short loadouts.
And before you quote me and try beating me with a "YOU'RE WRONG CHANGE IT BACK" stick, take a breath and think about your post.
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Well, I've played against it. Require more finesse, right, because it didn't already require finesse to do it right? It was hard disabling weapons of Goldfishes or something, or even hitting a Pyra with an LJ. No you just charged head on, that's definately what happened (/sarcasm)... Now we have to do it with crippled weaponry, perfect.
Now do keep in mind, I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's just too much of a drag and not even worth my time anymore, it's not a game, it's a job every time I have to face snipers. It had a reasonable difficulty before and they STILL held the advantage, now their advantage is just that much bigger. Explain to me how is it enjoyable to play against that with the brawling guns we get now? It's not ALL about balance either, it's simply not fun anymore. My guns don't feel like guns, I hate how the game 'feels' if you want, since both you and Mr.Akwm like throwing that word around a lot.
Chrinus:
--- Quote from: awkm on October 29, 2013, 11:43:13 am ---Yes. Disabling wasn't a big thing before because it was far easier to flat-out kill someone with gat/mortar. Hopefully these changes will make disabling a more viable and perhaps needed strategy, at least at higher level play anyway. One thing I'll monitor is time to rebuild guns and guns (since that was made difficult as a way to make disabling more useful) and also offering other guns the ability to disable too like gat/carronade since they have piercing damage. They might also need some ProjectileExpansion... MAYBE.
This is only an idea. Don't freak out yet.
--- End quote ---
I absolutely love this idea Eric. Though I'd like to see better close range light slot disables... perhaps a second look at the light carronade at some point?
While we're on the light carronade.. why such a big hit to the range? As I said after testing last night "Well, there's no reason to use heavy on this anymore - your range is so close it's not worth losing shots for the accuracy." 375 might be the common ground we're looking for so this weapon maintains the plethora of ammunition types that makes the weapon attractive. The same goes for the heavy carronade: middle ground to not knock additional ammunition out of the frame. Lesmok doesn't extend the effective range of the weapon, plain and simple.
Also the gatling could use a touch more range than where she sits right now; just a bit overnerfed with that change compounded with the others. Overall the dps of the weapon feels about right, it only needs to be able to apply that pressure a touch earlier than current.
I don't know where it happened, but it feels the brawling nerf just went too far finally and the long game has total dominance. Though this brings me back to my original agreement with disabling now being completely viable - let's get some support weapon tweaks and have something really engaging to fly once more! :)
Sammy B. T.:
--- Quote from: Subarco on October 29, 2013, 10:34:31 am ---This is a question for people in the competitive scene.
How do you propose to balance it so that brawling with gat/mort becomes viable once again among the upper tier teams, but not have it dominate the pub scene for the lower to mid tier teams?
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As much as I love to assume I am famous in the GOIO, I'll give some back story so you know where I come from. I a very long competitive brawler (when I started a brawling ship meant a gat flak Pyramidion with mercs on the side, I pushed it to include Junkers.) As a Duck I've spent a lot of times playing against Ducks both casually as well as practicing for competition. That means facing against the Paddling who I can say have the possibly best Galleon in the game in terms of experienced crew, worked out gun placements, and amazing map positioning. Basically when I tell you that I have spent a lot of time figuring out how to use brawl tactics to beat range tactics, it should be pretty believable.
A disclaimer though, this patch is actually relatively good for my brawl style. I currently fly an asymetrical Junker, Gat/Mortar left hand side and a Carronade/Banshee right (dominant) hand side . The light carronade changes aren't too bad especially with how I get so close anyway. I've always called myself a disabler but in reality I am an overwhelmer. I remove your systems to make sure none of your crew even has a chance to fire back. This is done with my right hand side. Occasionally I use the turning abilities of a Junker to finish with the left side, however considering my crew often asks me whether the should bother preloading and prebuffing the left hand weapons, I think its fair to say I am hardly a user of the Gat/Mortar.
The reason I say all this is to establish that even though I am a brawler, a player who has learned how to close in on an enemy and kill him up close, a gat mortar nerf doesn't really hurt my competitive chances and honestly, kinda helps. The thing is, I've chosen a build and playstyle that excels at the long game.
So let me paint you the picture. Me and my other brawler cousins, charge in to hell. We have both just flew through a killing floor, constantly losing guns, armor and engines all along the way. Its amazing we made it here alive and if the guns are actually up, that means the brawl Gods have granted us a miracle. Now my ship takes some time to win but as an overwhelmer, that is fine, your balloon is down and your engines are gone so you can't even turn your broken guns towards me. I do not have to kill you on the first clip. I get to take my time. A gat mortar though does have to kill you in one clip. The reason why is the enemy just had three or four clips into you. People think that one clip kill combinations in brawl are unfair but what they do not realize is that the engagement began long before that one clip kill.
I like the idea of gatling mortar being extremely close range. 400 meters may be a little too short, 450m, what was lasted tested in dev ap seemed fine.The thing though is if you are going to have a game balanced for I don't know lets say 30 second engagements and a gun combo can't fight for 20 seconds, then it needs the 10 second kill. That is how high reward high risk works. For gatling mortar to be high reward high risk you have to have the high reward. You need to reward them. The range isn't what is killing the gat/mortar, the damage is. This patch there was a significant dps nerf as the damage was lowered and the patch before that saw a massive rate of fire nerf. All these combined have taken away any chance for reward as it is now taking an absurd amount of time to kill.
TLDR, Brawl has to have short kills because they have been silent in a long engagement. This is something that can be balanced with small range, but ferocious DPS. Currently though gat mortar doesn't have the DPS to warrant the tiny range.
-Mad Maverick-:
"TLDR, Brawl has to have short kills because they have been silent in a long engagement. This is something that can be balanced with small range, but ferocious DPS. Currently though gat mrotar doesn't have the DPS to warrant the tiny range.".
this is what I have been saying for many posts now. I don't mind the range nerf I mind the dps nerf
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