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Please Make Gunners Useful
HamsterIV:
Loghnagar requires an engineer following the gunner to clean up their mess. Having more specialized ammo won't make gunners any more useful if they still require the support of an engineer to use them effectively. You can still get engineers to swap out on guns as a means of trading ammo. I have gotten a 3 engineer manti-fish to work fantastically. One engineer buffs the front gun and hull, one engineer shoots heavy clip and does hull repair at close range, and the last engineer shoots burst at close range, and does hull repair at long range.
I guess my main point is implementing radical changes to the game dynamics will produce unforeseen consequences, that and arguing on the internet is fun.
Echoez:
--- Quote from: HamsterIV on October 10, 2013, 06:17:51 pm ---Loghnagar requires an engineer following the gunner to clean up their mess. Having more specialized ammo won't make gunners any more useful if they still require the support of an engineer to use them effectively. You can still get engineers to swap out on guns as a means of trading ammo. I have gotten a 3 engineer manti-fish to work fantastically. One engineer buffs the front gun and hull, one engineer shoots heavy clip and does hull repair at close range, and the last engineer shoots burst at close range, and does hull repair at long range.
I guess my main point is implementing radical changes to the game dynamics will produce unforeseen consequences, that and arguing on the internet is fun.
--- End quote ---
It isn't something the engineer himself can use to great effect though and I don't mind the reliance on good crew teamwork to make a powerful ammo type work. This is the main idea, not everything has to damage your gun anyway.
Changing ammo types on the go with 3 engineers is not as effective as just having a guy focus on the gun on a Goldfish, plus your engineers would be better off using an ammo type that is useful for your sideguns, the example you present might work for the front gun but you are limiting the ammo usage on your side guns by a large margin, plus it's very demanding of the crew.
--- Quote from: Cid Ferringer on October 10, 2013, 06:14:05 pm ---And what is there to agree to disagree?
The thread is based on the premise that the gunner is "useless" or less useful than the engineer, so I think the discussion should center about what can be done to improve the gunner..
--- End quote ---
That is entirely opnionated, there's many people that don't think the same and hence people that will disagree exist and they have a solid opinion on the matter, hence nothing will be achieved by barking at each other.
I personaly think the Gunner just needs more ammo types as I stated in my post earlier, nothing on the Gunner is broken at the moment, they bring versatility at the cost of possible specialization with extra firepower (Buff hammer comes to mind). Some people will prefer the versatility, some won't, that's the beauty of it. I can't see any way to make the Gunner more viable without making him mandatory.
Richard LeMoon:
Curious, what are thoughts on an all gunner chat (while on a gun)? That would make them more useful, as they could coordinate volleys and ammo types between ships. Though, that would make the captain a little less useful. That is if you have a captain that actually talks.
Other options would be to allow the gunners to fix their guns 10% faster than engineers, or to let them reload ammo types while leaving the gun without defaulting to basic ammo.
I guess those would be passive buffs, but really, there is no difference in class right now other than what you can carry. Captains already have one 'passive' skill the others don't, which is the ship to ship chat. I would support the right passive for each class. Other than the tools you can carry, and the Capchat, all the classes are a bit.... same-y.
RearAdmiralZill:
Chill out guys, it's all good.
Cid Ferringer:
--- Quote from: Echoez on October 10, 2013, 06:49:08 pm ---That is entirely opnionated, there's many people that don't think the same and hence people that will disagree exist and they have a solid opinion on the matter, hence nothing will be achieved by barking at each other.
I personaly think the Gunner just needs more ammo types as I stated in my post earlier, nothing on the Gunner is broken at the moment, they bring versatility at the cost of possible specialization with extra firepower (Buff hammer comes to mind). Some people will prefer the versatility, some won't, that's the beauty of it. I can't see any way to make the Gunner more viable without making him mandatory.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but if we're going to discuss the premise itself, then as you said it will just go back and forth since you can't convince everyone.
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The main problem is that you have to give the gunner something that the engineer won't just take for himself instead of ammo.
So what if we add something that is used while you're on a gun, that doesn't require reloading.
Maybe make lochnagar into something that isn't ammunition, but works best when combined with special ammunition.
(I'll just start throwing around crazy ideas)
- Lochnagar that isn't ammo
So you can activate lochnagar, but it damages the gun per second. Then you can combine it by loading the gun with an special ammo type that reduces damage taken.
(maybe some kind of overheat, overclock explanation to this)
- Tracers
Activate and you will fire a tracer round each 5nd shot. Useful for aiming.
(yes tracers usually are ammo, but you could make it a tracer muzzle or some kind of gadget)
- Flaregun
A pocket sized gun that fires flares, will keep ships nearby spotted automatically for X time.
Can cause fires, very long reload time.
- Scope
Use a scope with the weapon to get some form of aim assist and zoom in ability. Not something you attach to the weapon, but rather a gadget of sorts.
- Weapon specific buff tool
The buff could stack up to 5 times, but would disable the gun for 9-15 sec when you apply it, to keep you from doing it in-combat.
Firing the weapon would wear out the buff, but special ammo could make it last much longer. (which means it's pretty useless unless you bring both the tool and right ammo)
This also gives the gunner something to do while not in combat.
I really think the key is having things that become very useful when combined with ammo.
The engineer has mallet and spanner, you need both tools. Applying the same principle to ammo makes it more worthwhile with a class with more gunnery item slots.
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