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Please Make Gunners Useful
N-Sunderland:
Echo's not saying that the meta shouldn't be questioned or anything. His point is that when you join somebody's ship, you should be prepared to do what they ask of you. If they ask you to switch to engi, then you should do so. If they ask you to switch to gunner, then you should also do it. I'm in favour of three engis myself, but if my captain wants a gunner (or even two), then that's fine. It's their choice.
And once again, changes to the gunner (as suggested by the OP) are already in the works.
Echoez:
--- Quote from: Cid Ferringer on October 10, 2013, 05:51:01 pm ---Echoez, why do you come in here and tell us what to think and do, isn't that just a tad bit arrogant?
You're basically saying, don't question the Meta and I think this is pointless so you should all stop..
I don't even play as a gunner, so this is not some sort of personal crusade.
It's just the idea that the gunner should be viable and have something important to contribute that I want to promote..
--- End quote ---
I don't see any problem with the Gunner, they have a clear advantage over the engineer for the purposes that they can be used for thereby I don't see why this argument has any point what so ever.
Changes are on the way already since this debate has been discussed to DEATH already over a million times that it's very frustrating to even look at people going at it again.
I'm not saying don't question the Meta, the OP was complaining about harassment because he refused to go Engineer and insisted on staying Gunner, well I'm sorry but in this game, just like the other examples I brought (and sorry but I will have to repeat myself) you can't play whatever you want all the time, if the pilot wants a third engineer go engineer and if they want a gunner, stay gunner, the haressment is more of a result of the OP's stubborness to play what THEY want instead of complying to his captain's requests, not because he was a gunner per se.
Call me arrogant if you want, but I'm tired of this happening again and again when people just refuse to agree to disagree.
HamsterIV:
Come on Echoez, pointless arguments are the bread and butter of the internet. So long as we don't devolve in to flame wars I look at this as a net positive.
Here are some more ideas I don't think would work for introducing a 2nd gunner into the meta:
Make a new Ship:
One that can be repaired/extinguished by one engineer and have enough guns to support two gunners. This ship would be very hard to balance for and would either be OP or too much of a glass cannon.
Make pilots irrelevant:
If the new meta was 2 gunners 2 engineers, we could keep the current ship designs which still require two engineers while allowing for two gunners.
Buff the Gunner class:
Give the gunner class passive bonuses to reload or damage. Could lead to exploits where the two engineer meta is still better than two gunners if the gunner does the gun prep and the engineer still shoots or vise versa. It would lead to a higher skill ceiling with people who are able to exploit the meta having an even more significant advantage over those who don't understand it.
Echoez:
--- Quote from: HamsterIV on October 10, 2013, 05:59:46 pm ---Come on Echoez, pointless arguments are the bread and butter of the internet. So long as we don't devolve in to flame wars I look at this as a net positive.
Here are some more ideas I don't think would work for introducing a 2nd gunner into the meta:
Make a new Ship:
One that can be repaired/extinguished by one engineer and have enough guns to support two gunners. This ship would be very hard to balance for and would either be OP or too much of a glass cannon.
Make pilots irrelevant:
If the new meta was 2 gunners 2 engineers, we could keep the current ship designs which still require two engineers while allowing for two gunners.
Buff the Gunner class:
Give the gunner class passive bonuses to reload or damage. Could lead to exploits where the two engineer meta is still better than two gunners if the gunner does the gun prep and the engineer still shoots or vise versa. It would lead to a higher skill ceiling with people who are able to exploit the meta having an even more significant advantage over those who don't understand it.
--- End quote ---
You want a suggestion? Here's a good one.
Make more Ammo types like Lochnagar, which is an ammo type that by itself, is mostly not a good choice for an Engineer, but a gunner that can afford multiple ammo types can take advantage of it much better, pretty much like the Engineer can make much better use of the Spanner and the Mallet.
Cid Ferringer:
Yeah, but you argue about the OP being selfish, yet you still demand everyone to stop this discussion based on your opinion and your annoyance of the topic..
In case you haven't noticed, there are a lot of new (myself included) and old players here, who want to discuss this..
If we're too annoying for you, there's nothing keeping you from saying "I respectfully disagree with you guys" and leave instead of demanding that everyone should stop posting because you don't think it will lead anywhere..
And what is there to agree to disagree?
The thread is based on the premise that the gunner is "useless" or less useful than the engineer, so I think the discussion should center about what can be done to improve the gunner..
If you disagree, no one is forcing you to participate.
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