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Please Make Gunners Useful
zlater75@hotmail.com:
ship build and tactics.
GeoRmr:
Okay, here's the deal:
I strongly feel that the classes are balanced and that the gunner role does not need 'buffing' in any way, despite all the nerfing muse has done to the different ammo types.
Gunners are extremely underrated simply because the advantage gained by carrying multiple munitions is subtle (but should never be overlooked), and down right general ignorance of their advantage on light weapons; I have already seen at least three individual posts in this thread claiming that only one ammo type is useful on the mortar! [particularly and especially on a metamidion].
I even run an extremely effective surprise/aggressive build that involves two gunners, a buff hammer, and rocket carousels - the varying ammo types allow you to put out preliminary disable at an unexpected range, followed by additional overwhelming disable and hull strip at mid range, and extremely fast direct damage at close range.
It destroys unprepared ships (most meta build ships) safely and quickly enough that a second engineer is not needed as long as the pilot is mindful of how they engage, and the gunners don't miss coordinate correctly [even against experienced captains].
A quick debunking: lesmok greased and burst rounds will all out perform each other situationally on the mortar, experiment and learn exactly when and what to use them against from moment to moment (the art of gunning). I guarantee their additional versatility will give you a killing and disabling advantage that by far outweighs the use of a third engineer, who (lets be honest) is only any use after all hell has gone down and you're waiting for an inevitable death or your ally to miraculously save you.
Don't forget to count your shells, count seconds, know your ability, and do some number crunching for maximum kill stealing ability efficiency:
How many lesmok shells does it take to kill a pyramidion? So what are you going to do with the other four? How long does it take the lesmok mortar to reach a target 1000 meters away? How long is your up-close ally going to take to strip their hull with that gun? Shouldn't you start shooting now then? Will you be able to hit that ship at that angle with jitter? Roughly how many shots are going to meet the mark? Should you ignore it, reload to burst and fire through the break once you've covered some ground? etc.
Chrome, I hope you appreciated the 11 out of 12 kills we 'secured' on red sepulchre. =P
roder:
I don't think the point of balancing should be to show that 2engy-1gunner is as good as 3engies. That alone shows classes arent really balanced and it restricts the amount of variety in class combos.
The real balance is showing that 2gunners-1engy is as good as 2engy-1gunner.
Thomas:
--- Quote from: roder on October 25, 2013, 08:39:21 pm ---I don't think the point of balancing should be to show that 2engy-1gunner is as good as 3engies. That alone shows classes arent really balanced and it restricts the amount of variety in class combos.
The real balance is showing that 2gunners-1engy is as good as 2engy-1gunner.
--- End quote ---
I'd agree with the first part, but not the second. 2 eng-1gun being just as good as 3 eng shows a bit of an issue (the part I agree with), where I'd say that a more balanced bit would be 2 eng-1 gun being better than 3 eng at the very least.
Anyway, like I was told, Muse is planning some changes in the near to distant future. No idea what those will be, but Muse knows best; and I trust them to make a good call.
Kriegson:
--- Quote from: Thomas on October 25, 2013, 09:01:42 pm ---
--- Quote from: roder on October 25, 2013, 08:39:21 pm ---I don't think the point of balancing should be to show that 2engy-1gunner is as good as 3engies. That alone shows classes arent really balanced and it restricts the amount of variety in class combos.
The real balance is showing that 2gunners-1engy is as good as 2engy-1gunner.
--- End quote ---
Anyway, like I was told, Muse is planning some changes in the near to distant future. No idea what those will be, but Muse knows best; and I trust them to make a good call.
--- End quote ---
I hope so, it certainly seems like any kind of suggestion or implication that the current state of gunner could be improved is met with dismissive resistance by those who have already crunched the numbers and created their meta-playstyle.
"The gunner is fine" it is always said, the mere hint that it could be improved in versatility or some other means (not necessarily direct damage output) is either A:useless (Which it may be to them, but not others) or B:too upsetting to the game (Ie their pre-determined playstyle) and utterly detrimental (might have to consider changing their playstyle! Until of course they crunch the numbers again and find the new meta, so what's the issue again?)
At least in my most recent experience, and what this thread seems to likewise indicate =/
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