Info > Feedback and Suggestions
Please Make Gunners Useful
The Djinn:
--- Quote from: Ingenu on October 14, 2013, 09:44:10 am ---The problem comes to that:
-To control the boat, just click on the helm.
-To use a gun, just click on the gun.
-To repair a piece of equipment, just click on.... *OUCH* no, you can't.
--- End quote ---
That's actually fairly insightful. What if Engineering were based around, say, a single thing (like Gunning normal ammo, or a Pilot's ability to fly): Say a 100hp/5 second, 3 rebuild tool. Everyone gets this tool by default. Call it the Engineering Kit or something.
Then you get "modifications" that you can use. Everyone gets 1, Engineers get 3 (I'd switch Spyglass to an "everyone" tool here, and let people actually choose a piloting tool aside from that).
Fire Extinguisher: -70 repair per hit, -1 second cooldown, -1 rebuild, removes all fire stacks.
Chemical Treatment Kit: -60 repair per hit, -2 second cooldown, -1 rebuild, removes 3 fire stacks per use, prevents additional fire stacks for 30 seconds.
Quick Repair Kit: -60 repair per hit, -3 second cooldown, +2 rebuild.
Major Damage Kit: +125 repair per hit, +4 second cooldown, -1 rebuild.
...and so forth. An Engineer has flexibility above and beyond the average (due to a better selection of tools for the specific situation), while the Gunner and Pilot have the average baseline of Engineer repairing and a SINGLE addition to give them more flexibility in a specific direction. This flexibility might even allow for 2 gunner crews being competent at repairing and better at gunning, while 2 engineer crews are better at repairing and competent at gunning.
Cid Ferringer:
But it would be really boring if the tools were just "buffs" instead of actual items..
That's why I don't really like the gunner having so much ammo and no actual tools or gadgets.
A scope, tracer muzzle, smoke screen bomb, flare gun, these are just a couple of things that could be added as gunnery items that would stack ontop of regular ammunition.
Don't forget that there's a huge difference between mallet/spanner and the wrench.
Engineers will still be as important even if gunners are given the same "baseline" It's will be like giving them a wrench and then having them choose spanner or mallet..
Since engineer is so situational, you need the main tools and be as effective as possible to deal with burst damage, a wrench and mallet isn't good enough even though it's better than just a wrench.
geggis:
--- Quote from: The Djinn on October 14, 2013, 01:10:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: Ingenu on October 14, 2013, 09:44:10 am ---The problem comes to that:
-To control the boat, just click on the helm.
-To use a gun, just click on the gun.
-To repair a piece of equipment, just click on.... *OUCH* no, you can't.
--- End quote ---
That's actually fairly insightful.
--- End quote ---
That was my point earlier on with regards to the vanilla/standard ammo idea: engineers are inherently more useful because they can operate guns independently of their loadout, bring three engineering tools and one specialised ammo. Gunners have to bring spanner/wrench/mallett to even be able to repair and rebuild something, and whichever tool they choose sacrifices repair/rebuild power as well as the ability to buff and protect/extinguish.
I don't like the idea of gunners coming with some baseline engineering equipment because it's almost like giving them an extra 'secret' engineering slot. Yes, anyone can pilot, and yes, anyone can gun, but those activities don't require tools to operate like engineering does. To fly you spin the wheel and adjust the throttle. To gun you hold the thing and pull the trigger. Engineering is all about the tools hence why you need them to do the job. The point of the vanilla/standard ammo idea is to alter the value of the ammo slot for the engineer without taking it away. You make a standard ammo type and suddenly engineers have to start making the same trade-offs with gunning as gunners do with engineering. You can take the wrench as a gunner, you can take the standard ammo as an engineer. You take a more specialised tool/ammo type and you take all the pitfalls that come with them.
Gunner tools could be really interesting though. My guess would be that Muse would go down this route as it would really bolster the gunner's role and force the dilemma above for engineers without creating standard/vanilla rounds.
Ingenu:
The idea is for everyone to be able to repair/rebuild by simply clicking.
It's the equivalent of normal ammunition for guns, or standard control to pilot.
If anyone can rebuild/repair, each person can decide what bonus they want. (repair/rebuild/improve/...)
Cheesy Crackers:
As long as it's not a squid. The pilot will most likely accept you as a gunner.
If not and you really cant find any games and tons of pilots are screaming at you to go engi buffgineer is the next best thing as it gives you more of a reason to stay on the guns.
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