Heavy Flak Cannon

[Twinkie D-Lite]

Will someone please just get rid of the heavy flak cannon? It is worthless. Now only oneshot with lesmok round, can’t penetrate hull armor, and is the most useless heavy weapon in existence. No other heavy weapon needs a gatling or mercury to back it up for its intended purpose. The flak is intended to kill, and we all know it can’t do crap without an engineer on a field gun.

I am no mathematical genius but since when is 30% of 2 equal to 1, wouldn't you round it up. Or is this an effort to equalize the overuse of the field gun? Just reduce the damage and leave it alone instead of screwing up the main ammo type for a heavy weapon that is practically useless as it is.

[Cloudrunner]

I have to admit I feel the same way. Heavy flak is totally useless, I can't think of a reason I'd ever use it and the changes to lesmok seem totally unfounded as well as frustrating.

[Shinkurex]

There is already a thread for the heavy flak, and its balance here:

https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2034.msg34960.html

[awkm]

I can't touch Field Gun damage because we have a lack of piercing and ranged component disablers.  In the future, when more of these kinds of weapons are added the Field Gun will definitely get normalized.  The Lesmok was specifically to combat Field Gun.  To be honest, I would have liked to get rid of the Field Gun months ago.  Do you really want me to get rid of the Heavy Flak?  Think about what you ask for.

One additional thing is that I don't agree with one ammo being the default for a gun.  1 option = not options = no fun.  I encourage you to try different ammo types.

This is not to say that the Heavy Flak won't be looked at.  Lesmok was a crutch for an already sick gun.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Honestly at this point, I'd like flak either returned to it's power capability back in 1.1 or removed completely. New players don't understand arming times and it was more fun when the flak was this powerful cannon that could hit well even at close range. Just get in their face and blast away at close range. Keep the range cut on it so it isn't an extreme range weapon but I'd definitely like the raw power back. Flakfish are jokes as it sits. So people take Hwachafish which have no killing power and with long reload times are easy to counter. Jackfish requires a good gunner and works but leaves a fish exposed too long and open to attack. Same with Blenderfish.

Yeah Flak was the go-to loadout for Fish back then but it was fun. A lot more than being a Hwachafish and being unable to help allies. I've seen far too many hwacha blasts which don't get a single part destroyed. They used it a lot on Galleon too and dual flakkers were scary. You'd have to fly better to counter it. But it took a captain to keep the ship stable so gunners could aim.

[Twinkie D-Lite]

I like using the heavy flak because it’s fairly difficult to hit with at range, even though I know it is doing nothing that a half decent engineer can’t repair before I reload. I use it now for one reason only, lochnager achievements, and that’s it. I get bored sitting on my flak and wishing I could hit target like my counterpart on the lumberjack, but I don’t have the range. Lesmok rounds move so slowly, so you can imagine using charged or something similar. It’s like watching a rock fall off the wall, it starts heading for the ground as soon as it leaves the gun. On a positive note I do agree with the arming timer, its just like a round from the M 203 grenade launcher, it needs a certain distance, and rotation speed, before it arms itself. I can attest to that fact as we used to throw them like footballs at each other and never got one to explode. Ahh, the good old days.

[Piemanlives]

I have to agree on gilder with this one, the Heavy Flak was a much better gun back then then it is now, sure it's still effective but it's just not very intuitive to use at this moment in time.

[Spud Nick]

I wonder how well the flak would do if we gave it another shell to fire. Do you guys think 4 shots in a heavy flak is too much? what about 3?

[Piemanlives]

4 sounds logical, 3 just sounds silly, I mean, 1 barrel shoots twice while the other fires a single time?

[QKO]

What gun would I have to use to replace the heavy flak cannon that shoots at 2500 range and can kill an unarmored ship in 2 shots? Even without lesmok the flak is still great and with charged ammo it hurts a LOT. If you have 2 of these guns next to eachother on the galleon, any ship with the hull armor down can be instantly killed, given that your gunners can aim. If they should fix anything, I'd be more interested in a heavy gun that does mid-long range piercing damage(like the fieldgun).

[Squidslinger Gilder]

You'd be lucky or have a skilled gunner to be hitting shots at 2500 with flak. The shells should explode before then. The old flak was able to do that. It was a fantastic long range killing weapon.

Trouble is for range killing you are better off with Lumberjack. If you have a good gunner who knows the ranges they can pummel a ship hard with jacks. Since it also has some shatter, you not only are keeping the balloon down but damaging everything.

Refer to the Sky Torpedo threads. That is basically what myself and others were thinking up for a heavy gun that can do piercing. But we modified that idea and turned it into something with Impact damage. Remember impact does everything plus knocks a ship off course.

Kinda funny that some of the community has gone so anti ranged battle but we keep getting things like arming timers or set distances for ranged guns yet no major nerfs to them. Doubt some would be happy until all ranged guns are done away with and ships just dance around hugging each other in the air. Which really isn't the problem. Want to stop the ranged battles? Change flares so they aren't godlike in seeing through everything, return certain ships to their 1.1 abilities, and give back some of the good gun functionality that have been tossed out. Bring back Flak and Flamethrowers to 1.1. Variable range killing power and gun mounts that instantly become unusable when on fire.

[Crafeksterty]

Ive been playing with my clan buds, we use heavy flak quite often and... we have no issue at all.

To be honest, i have seen better use of the flak with new players because they are forced to use other than lesmok to hit.

In an orginized play Lochnagar can be a devestating thing, the only ship that can survive a hit from that is the galleon.

[Twinkie D-Lite]

Well using charged or burst you can get around 1300 meters max range, thats not a long range weapon, the light flak can shoot almost that far itself. If its in the long range category then make it long range. As far as your lochnager, even a squid can take a loch round and survive. you have to deal armor damage to get to the killing zone, which we all know a heavy flak cant do by itself, unless you get 4 or 5 shots off and the enemy team has some really bad engineers. I can tell you from experience when I see a ship with a heavy flak its on the very bottom of my target list, unless it has the rare individual who can shoot it well. Main thing to remember, anyone can be a superstar at 500m.

[QKO]

You'd be lucky or have a skilled gunner to be hitting shots at 2500 with flak. The shells should explode before then. The old flak was able to do that. It was a fantastic long range killing weapon.

Trouble is for range killing you are better off with Lumberjack. If you have a good gunner who knows the ranges they can pummel a ship hard with jacks. Since it also has some shatter, you not only are keeping the balloon down but damaging everything.

Refer to the Sky Torpedo threads. That is basically what myself and others were thinking up for a heavy gun that can do piercing. But we modified that idea and turned it into something with Impact damage. Remember impact does everything plus knocks a ship off course.

Kinda funny that some of the community has gone so anti ranged battle but we keep getting things like arming timers or set distances for ranged guns yet no major nerfs to them. Doubt some would be happy until all ranged guns are done away with and ships just dance around hugging each other in the air. Which really isn't the problem. Want to stop the ranged battles? Change flares so they aren't godlike in seeing through everything, return certain ships to their 1.1 abilities, and give back some of the good gun functionality that have been tossed out. Bring back Flak and Flamethrowers to 1.1. Variable range killing power and gun mounts that instantly become unusable when on fire.

My perception was wrong, after 1000 meters the round simply explodes. I therefore in that thread already said they should change the range to 2000 meters.

And I'm not really picking sides in the ranged vs melee fight. Some people prefer ranged play and some prefer melee. Both of them can provide entertaining fights as long as they have the means to force a fight in their respective range. Ranged vessels have this by means of flare gun, while melee vessels have to rely on pure speed alone; which is kind of silly. I also think that long range killing power should be adequate rather than being damage nerfed. If you're going to have range fights, might as well have them quick rather than having a waiting game. At the same time, I keep saying, make it so that melee vessels at least have a way to get close without taking fire (such as smoke screens).

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Same Twinkie. Only ones using it in the competitive scene are nostalgia vets who are crack shots with it. Thats where the only danger lies. Outside of that it is not a weapon to fear. The range is short and can be zoned out. The shots are slow and can be avoided. Unless you are sitting in front of the gun near arming range, there is nothing to fear. Then accounting for lag with it and such too just makes the shots miss often enough anyways.

Wouldn't be surprised if the Jack got readjusted. It's going to have to be eventually. With mercs nerfed there is nothing to hit at extreme range except for Jack. I suspect that came because of complaints about groups like us taking light gun ships and mercing down enemies at 1 kill per half hour. Which is in itself just a response to the dangers of being torn up trying to close range. I've said it many times but it still rings true. Need the flare either removed or altered so people can take risks on sneak approaches when in competitive play. Adding more clouds doesn't solve the problem. Although when the problem is solved it'll be awesome. Jack I still think is fine but if it has to be nerfed eventually then I say speed of the shot. Would make the shots even more avoidable at extreme range and force closer engagements.