GUNS & GUNNER SKILLS Balance Discussion v1.3.1

[Kharthynogus]

Ah, I guess I missed out on that discussion.

[Queso]

It's need to know info right now because wild speculation isn't that helpful and saying things like that tends to cause wild speculation. NOBODY WILDLY SPECULATE!

[Gambrill]

Honestly the AOE is fine, especially with heavy clip.  It just takes a bit of aiming.

I usually try to remind my gunners to sweep the areas where they're trying to disable, or even shoot in bursts if taking out guns is the priority.

Please allow me to gun on your ship so you can teach me, i struggle to take down weapons apart from the merc.

[Echoez]

Honestly the AOE is fine, especially with heavy clip.  It just takes a bit of aiming.

I usually try to remind my gunners to sweep the areas where they're trying to disable, or even shoot in bursts if taking out guns is the priority.

I think the AoE is not realy exactly fine.. seeing as how it is very hard to disable certain ships with Heavy clip due to the now perfect accuracy plus the lower clip side.

Sure disabling a Galleon's broadside is a piece of cake, but everything else is realy pretty damn hard to aim properly, an extra difficulty this gun didn't REALY need. I mean, it's not horrible, but it definately didn't deserve to become harder.

[Nidh]

The Hwacha has indeed suffered a penalty to it's mid-long range effectiveness. This is why I fly almost strictly Blenderfish after the Heavy change. It's easier to hit things from a stationary Galleon, but from a Goldfish's point of view, it's much harder to disable anything at all from mid-long range. I used to have to call to my gunner "Steady!" when a Hwacha shot was lined up and ready to fire, but even then, chances are the ship would still be drifting from the natural agility of it. The reduced clip size and pinpoint accuracy make it very tough for a gunner to hit effectively on such a fast moving ship.

[Echoez]

I propose some of the spread be returned to heavy clip to be honest, make it something like 90% recoil reduction, not nothing at all, so at least the rockets have some sort of spread to them.

[Captain Smollett]

Honestly the AOE is fine, especially with heavy clip.  It just takes a bit of aiming.

I usually try to remind my gunners to sweep the areas where they're trying to disable, or even shoot in bursts if taking out guns is the priority.

I think the AoE is not realy exactly fine.. seeing as how it is very hard to disable certain ships with Heavy clip due to the now perfect accuracy plus the lower clip side.

Sure disabling a Galleon's broadside is a piece of cake, but everything else is realy pretty damn hard to aim properly, an extra difficulty this gun didn't REALY need. I mean, it's not horrible, but it definately didn't deserve to become harder.

Wait so people are struggling with the Hwacha now that it's more accurate?

The precision is awesome, especially at range(see Mr. Lambert shoot in the Flotsam Dynesty campaign for a demonstration).  If you want to make sure you disable certain components spray around the components that you want destroyed. Don't forget holding down the trigger is not requisite in Hwacha firing.

[Echoez]

Wait so people are struggling with the Hwacha now that it's more accurate?

The precision is awesome, especially at range(see Mr. Lambert shoot in the Flotsam Dynesty campaign for a demonstration).  If you want to make sure you disable certain components spray around the components that you want destroyed. Don't forget holding down the trigger is not requisite in Hwacha firing.

The only awesome thing about it is that now that it doesn't reduce projectile speed you get the accuracy at max range, the bad thing is that if you try and spray it, you might end up missing a lot of shots cause the mouse is not really as depentable (here goes) as the random spread that gun used to have with the old Heavy clip (due to the evenly distributed shots, something impossible to achieve with mouse aim)

Since now it has no spread, if your first shot misses the target, the next 5 or so shots are also guarrantied to miss, so unless you get it right with the first go, you will waste a lot of rockets, it's just not as dependable as it was. For a multi warhead rocket laucher, this much precision shouldn't be required of the player is what I'm getting at, not that my gunners have problem aimming it (unless they are random pubs, in which case they are excused)

[RearAdmiralZill]

Don't forget holding down the trigger is not requisite in Hwacha firing.

This.

Hwacha is perfectly fine as is. The fact that heavy clip can turn it into a long range weapon is bonus enough, as without it, any other ammo type just spray's rockets everywhere, making it most effective at medium range at best.

As for increasing the aoe, then you just make burst Hwacha even worse for people, which I doubt anyone feels is needed.

[Echoez]

Hwacha is perfectly fine as is. The fact that heavy clip can turn it into a long range weapon is bonus enough, as without it, any other ammo type just spray's rockets everywhere, making it most effective at medium range at best.

As for increasing the aoe, then you just make burst Hwacha even worse for people, which I doubt anyone feels is needed.

You know the Hwacha was fine before as well, it's not realy in a better position, I'd say that the perfect accuracy Heavy clip has now is extremely detrimental for this weapon, basically the new Heavy clip hurts it more than it helps.

Old Heavy clip still allowed it to be used at a pretty long range (roughly 900+ meters) with much better effect due to the 20% deviation the projectiles had.

Also Burst disables everything on any ship already anyway, so more AoE wouldn't make it any more powerful than it already is, but I don't realy want more default AoE, rather than some spread returned to Heavy clip.

(and by all means, this isn't a major issue, I just feel it should be adressed)

[N-Sunderland]

I'll be honest about this: you need a better hwacha gunner. All it takes is sweeping the fire around to land hits on multiple components.

[Nidh]

Watching the latest tournament videos don't help much to prove your point. If you notice that almost every time a Heavy Clip shot is made, 0-1 component gets destroyed on the enemy ship. There are very few times in those tournaments that the Hwacha actually does the job it was designed for and disables an enemy ship reliably. On a Goldfish, the long reload time is devastating for your ally if nothing gets destroyed because you've done the equivalent of absolutely nothing to help him out.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Same can be said about the gat, but I don't feel that it has hurt the gun at all in terms of balance. Hwacha honestly has no business hitting very accurately at/near it's max range anyway. If it did, I'm sure you'd be getting your wish as people would be crying OP.

At it's max range, the best you can hope for is a destruct here and there, but mostly just damages. It's not a long range gun to begin with, so the fact that heavy gives it that potential is very much a boost to the gun.

As for missing shots, that's just something to learn (and I say it in the nicest way possible).

[Nidh]

The Hwacha was fine before the Heavy change right? Well, It could more reliably hit at longer ranges back then and nobody but newbies cried OP. Which, well they still do. I just want the Hwacha to do it's job and disable reliably from at least mid range. I don't want it for it's explosive damage. I want it for it's shatter, and right now it's shatter isn't very reliable.

[RearAdmiralZill]

The Hwacha is fine now. Obviously this is a point which we all wont be agreeing on so make a thread on it if you'd like. I know Awkm would want it that way.