GUNS & GUNNER SKILLS Balance Discussion v1.3.1

[Captain Smollett]

Honestly the AOE is fine, especially with heavy clip.  It just takes a bit of aiming.

I usually try to remind my gunners to sweep the areas where they're trying to disable, or even shoot in bursts if taking out guns is the priority.

[Letus]

Honestly the AOE is fine, especially with heavy clip.  It just takes a bit of aiming.

I usually try to remind my gunners to sweep the areas where they're trying to disable, or even shoot in bursts if taking out guns is the priority.

Just thinking of newbie standpoints...there is almost no benefit to hwatcha fishing again...probably because nobody knows how to use it at such a low level (first thing I did when I was new was practice mode, see what each gun did, and what each shot did...) even though a good hwatcha is probably the best counter to these one ship, double-combo brawlers that people moan about.

[awkm]

We're doing some work to get newbs on the right kind of ship.  No more newbie hwacha fishes.

[Zander Broda]

Something really needs to be done about the gunner Vs engineer balance issues. i've been one achievement away from leveling up my gunner for weeks now, but due to the communities hostility towards gunners i just can't get it, not once, not twice, but three time in the last week have the DUCKS forced me to quit out of match's because i wanted to play a gunner, and i'm not talking about jumping into matchs already happening, i mean going into a lobby, the last time i was on a ship alone waiting for people to pop in and a couple of them got on and demanded i switch. if this is how the community reacts to somebody playing one of three classes how do you expect to keep new players past the first day?

[Imagine]

Something really needs to be done about the gunner Vs engineer balance issues. i've been one achievement away from leveling up my gunner for weeks now, but due to the communities hostility towards gunners i just can't get it, not once, not twice, but three time in the last week have the DUCKS forced me to quit out of match's because i wanted to play a gunner, and i'm not talking about jumping into matchs already happening, i mean going into a lobby, the last time i was on a ship alone waiting for people to pop in and a couple of them got on and demanded i switch. if this is how the community reacts to somebody playing one of three classes how do you expect to keep new players past the first day?

Tell them they're wrong, and if they still demand for you to engineer, just move to another ship. It's not a balance issue, is a strict misconception issue (and the ducks are known for not liking gunners).

[Nidh]

Asking you to switch classes, unless asked in a hostile way, is not something that I consider a hostile act in itself. The captain typically has a certain strategy that requires, more often than not, an engineer. If you want to win, it's usually best to trust the captains decision. As an engineer you'll often get to shoot guns anyway, so unless you're completely restricted to repairs, you're not actually missing out on any gameplay.

@Imagine you don't want to incite an argument over something like this, as that would just make your experience worse.

My advice? Fly with some high-levels, follow orders, and gain their respect. You are still relatively new, and learning the basics of the game, which is in no way a bad thing. When you're friends with them, ask if you can farm for some achievements when you are more experienced, and perhaps more in tune with those numbers.

[QKO]

Tell them they're wrong, and if they still demand for you to engineer, just move to another ship. It's not a balance issue, is a strict misconception issue (and the ducks are known for not liking gunners).

When I've played with ducks members, they have had me on as a gunner often enough without complaint. I think the major issue here is that gunners tend to just restrict themselves to one type of ammo and for that purpose any crew is better off with an engineer. I'm pretty sure that if you explain that you, as a gunner, switch ammo types regularly and even help reloading other people's guns(engineers that are repairing stuff for example) that you make a much stronger case for yourself. Just think about what a hwacha can do when its user is loading in incendiary, burst or heavy clip depending on the situation.

[N-Sunderland]

Changes are being made to stratify the classes. That should help end the gunner vs. gungi argument completely.

@QKO: Our reasoning for using gungineers goes much further than that, but I'm not going to begin an argument on this thread.

All right, end of story for that subject.

[Captain Smollett]

Something really needs to be done about the gunner Vs engineer balance issues. i've been one achievement away from leveling up my gunner for weeks now, but due to the communities hostility towards gunners i just can't get it, not once, not twice, but three time in the last week have the DUCKS forced me to quit out of match's because i wanted to play a gunner, and i'm not talking about jumping into matchs already happening, i mean going into a lobby, the last time i was on a ship alone waiting for people to pop in and a couple of them got on and demanded i switch. if this is how the community reacts to somebody playing one of three classes how do you expect to keep new players past the first day?

Well speaking as a Duck captain who often asks people to switch to engineer for the strategy I prefer, I really don't mind having a gunner in a casual pub match if someone wants to farm achievements.  However it is something that I think should be communicated.  After being asked to switch to engineer did you let the captain know you were trying to finish your achievement? 

[Zander Broda]

i have in the past, and its usually met with them asking me to leave. and before anyone asks, no, i don't join as a second gunner, and i'm not the type to spite someone by simply staying in the lobby when i'm not wanted there, i just move on to the next quick start lobby, where i either get the same reaction or the ships already have gunners, rinse and repeat 3 or 4 more time, then i either rage quit or switch to pilot

and just to be clear, i have no ill will towards the ducks, they are simply the only physical target i can point to, my experience has largely been in PUGs, as i said, i've been stuck one achievement away from leveling for weeks, its not even a hard achievement, i just need to win 5 match's.

i actually understand why they want engineers rather than a gunner, with a little extra coordination you get everything a gunner can bring to the table, AND extra engi tools. its the fact that the mechanics of the game cause this sort of reaction in its community that's frustrating me. imagine being new to the game again, whats the class that everyone is going to want to play? its the gunner, and then you get people insulting you for picking that class, telling you to play a class that you probably have no idea how to play, i couldn't tell you how many newcomers i've taught how to engi in the last 3 weeks.

[Nidh]

Well, I suppose that's the life of the swabbie. But why do you think newbies join as gunners? Because they want to shoot stuff. You get to shoot stuff as an engie on most beginner ships anyway, since I've heard most beginner matches are loaded with Pyras. You're just a more effective (in most cases) crewmember as an engie. I feel like it's just a matter of pride that makes people not want to change from being a gunner since you'd be doing the same stuff as an engie, just more effective. At least in beginner matches.

[Zander Broda]

Well, I suppose that's the life of the swabbie. But why do you think newbies join as gunners? Because they want to shoot stuff. You get to shoot stuff as an engie on most beginner ships anyway, since I've heard most beginner matches are loaded with Pyras. You're just a more effective (in most cases) crewmember as an engie. I feel like it's just a matter of pride that makes people not want to change from being a gunner since you'd be doing the same stuff as an engie, just more effective. At least in beginner matches.

no, engi's get to HOPE they get to shoot, which causes fighting over who's on a gun and who's repairing, which often leads to no one repairing at all.

[DMaximus]

There are other threads available for discussions along these lines. AWKM likes to keep this thread nice, clean and on topic so he can quickly determine the community's thoughts on GUNS & GUNNER SKILLS balance. Unfortunately, there are no database settings to be tweaked to modify how other players think, so this discussion should really be continued elsewhere.   

[Kharthynogus]

What if each class had base stat advantages over the other two? I think it would help if being a gunner meant you had things like decreased jitter, increased yaw/pitch speed, and decreased reload time just because you were a gunner. The idea is that, if you spent your career firing guns, then you should be better at firing guns than the other two classes.

[N-Sunderland]

Changes are already in the pipeline to separate the classes a bit more. That discussion is over.