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Is this kind of behavior acceptable in GOIO?

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Swizy:
That's about what I was thinking. In adition you could kick useless ai gunner from your ship. However if I remember right this wasn't as well recieved as I wished it to be. Maybe once it gets more feedback we can bringbthisnupnagain. But for now I'd say the wrong class joining isn't as bignofna deal in my experience. And I do play many random games.

Eukari:
QKO, I can't disagree with you more. "Casual" and "Hardcore" is pretty much the worst possible way to divide players, and it sets up a situation where were are actively discriminating against people simply because they don't play "the right way." (i.e., exactly how I think they should be playing) The last thing a game with a small base should be doing is saying that some players are more equal than others.

I do understand your frustration, and I'm not suggesting that we do nothing about it. You've mentioned before that you don't want GoIO to turn into another DoTA or LoL. That's fine; I have no interest in either of those games, largely because I know how awful their players are. But you know something else? The number one way to end up like that is punishing players because they are new. DoTA's players aren't terrible because they're bad, they're terrible because they take the game way too seriously. Fixing the issue of annoying players is a lot more complicated than just hitting them something whenever they misbehave, and not matter what you'll never fully solve the problem. I'm sorry, but this is a Sisyphean task you've set for yourself.

And as to "hardcore" gamers having more fun? That is 100% bull****. How much fun a person has with a game has to with the individual person, their taste in games and they way they choose to play. Saying someone isn't having as much fun because they don't play the game like you think they should...that's the kind of elitist attitude that pervades games like DoTA. We should be welcoming different people and different ways of looking at the game, not looking down our noses at the stupid "casuals."

Echoez:

--- Quote from: Eukari on August 27, 2013, 05:51:07 pm ---QKO, I can't disagree with you more. "Casual" and "Hardcore" is pretty much the worst possible way to divide players, and it sets up a situation where were are actively discriminating against people simply because they don't play "the right way." (i.e., exactly how I think they should be playing) The last thing a game with a small base should be doing is saying that some players are more equal than others.

I do understand your frustration, and I'm not suggesting that we do nothing about it. You've mentioned before that you don't want GoIO to turn into another DoTA or LoL. That's fine; I have no interest in either of those games, largely because I know how awful their players are. But you know something else? The number one way to end up like that is punishing players because they are new. DoTA's players aren't terrible because they're bad, they're terrible because they take the game way too seriously. Fixing the issue of annoying players is a lot more complicated than just hitting them something whenever they misbehave, and not matter what you'll never fully solve the problem. I'm sorry, but this is a Sisyphean task you've set for yourself.

And as to "hardcore" gamers having more fun? That is 100% bull****. How much fun a person has with a game has to with the individual person, their taste in games and they way they choose to play. Saying someone isn't having as much fun because they don't play the game like you think they should...that's the kind of elitist attitude that pervades games like DoTA. We should be welcoming different people and different ways of looking at the game, not looking down our noses at the stupid "casuals."

--- End quote ---

My salute button is broken, I kept clicking.

Commodore Phoenix:
Eukari I don't think you understand what QKO means by "casual" and "Hardcore" gamers in this game. We have all types of players in what we call "hardcore", Clans, Artists, Commentators or just really good players who are involved in the game. You don't have to be an elitist to see that there is a strong divide between players. You have players who play once a week but they post on the forums regularly in my opinion this is a "Hardcore" Guns of Icarus player or a player like me who has played about 830 hours on this game and is one of the few people who aren't in a clan simply because I want to enjoy the game but at the same time do it with some sort of skill based game-play, who also speaks to the devs about game bugs and so forth, this I would also consider a "Hardcore" gamer. Basically what QKO was saying is the more you give a damn about this game and how it runs the more of a "Hardcore" gamer you are.

Disclaimer: any and all references are strictly based to this game I am not referring to hardcore or casuals from other games.

QKO:

--- Quote from: Eukari on August 27, 2013, 05:51:07 pm ---QKO, I can't disagree with you more. "Casual" and "Hardcore" is pretty much the worst possible way to divide players, and it sets up a situation where were are actively discriminating against people simply because they don't play "the right way." (i.e., exactly how I think they should be playing) The last thing a game with a small base should be doing is saying that some players are more equal than others.
--- End quote ---
The division will be made regardless of whether we like it or not. At some point players will say enough is enough and they will confine themselves to a group they can trust. That is how inhouses are born. And while inhouses are not meant to affect the community in any bad way, it will mean that players who wish to get into this game will have a much harder time. Hence it is more sensible to have this division done by the game(properly done by the game) voiding the necessity of inhouses and thus all players who wish to enjoy the game to its fullest enter the same pool. I'm not saying we need to implement any "I'm better than you" stats, just a way for the game to seperate "Ooooh, what does THIS button do?" from "I try to win". And when players freshly enter the more hardcore pool, the preexisting pool can vote over several matches on whether the new player should stay in that pool or not. And if not, they are relegated to the 'casual' pool for a while before they can try again.

--- Quote ---I do understand your frustration, and I'm not suggesting that we do nothing about it. You've mentioned before that you don't want GoIO to turn into another DoTA or LoL. That's fine; I have no interest in either of those games, largely because I know how awful their players are. But you know something else? The number one way to end up like that is punishing players because they are new. DoTA's players aren't terrible because they're bad, they're terrible because they take the game way too seriously. Fixing the issue of annoying players is a lot more complicated than just hitting them something whenever they misbehave, and not matter what you'll never fully solve the problem. I'm sorry, but this is a Sisyphean task you've set for yourself.
--- End quote ---
Misbehavior in games like LoL and DotA happen due to the lack of power players have. There is no leader, the role has to be assumed by someone and he can pray that others listen. The reporting systems are complete shit and easily abused by trolls. And developers there have done NOTHING to separate casuals from hardcore players which means that it is common to have 1 or 2 feeders on your team that do everything wrong and claim to 'play for fun'. And because there's a leaver protection system in place there, people are losing HOURS over these kind of players. That is their frustration, it's not that these players are bad or evil, they are frustrated as hell and they have a really short fuse because of it. I have been there, I have seen it happen; everyone that has played with me knows I'm quick to lash out and the afore mentioned games are the cause of that.

--- Quote ---And as to "hardcore" gamers having more fun? That is 100% bull****. How much fun a person has with a game has to with the individual person, their taste in games and they way they choose to play. Saying someone isn't having as much fun because they don't play the game like you think they should...that's the kind of elitist attitude that pervades games like DoTA. We should be welcoming different people and different ways of looking at the game, not looking down our noses at the stupid "casuals."

--- End quote ---
So you expect to play Chess for a full year without learning the rules or learning from your mistakes and expect to have the same amount of fun of someone who does the same but does learn? You are really mistaken about this. And I don't know what other bullshit comes after that, but I've not mentioned any form of elitist behavior in the post you respond to. I even mentioned that the mindset of 'I know things better than you' is detrimental to a player's performance. So what is your argument?

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