Which maps would you want gone?

[Gryphos]

I think anyone would rather watch sniping than a tedious king of the hill game.

I have to disagree with this. The reason people find sniper matches boring is because for a majority of the time nothing is happening, no movement. Even in the most tedious KOTH matches I'm still entertained by the fact that entertaining combat is happening.

[DMaximus]

I also have the load issues on Labyrinth and Paritan. I think it's because I have a slow HDD. I don't think that's a reason to axe the map though. Taking any map out of the rotation for Cogs seems kind of against the spirit. Isn't one of the goals to show all that GoIO has to offer? Personally, I'd like to see what interesting strategies competitive teams will come up with for KotH. It hasn't been played much in high level tournaments, so I'm sure there's still a lot of room for innovation and new tactics.   

[Byron Cavendish]

I've made my peace with knowing I'll be at a personal disadvantage on paritan competitively a long time ago. Luckily even with a slow load I probably won't be in immediate danger or at a huge disadvantage (at least on paritan). However I know from discussions with many people, and the reason why I see it not voted for often, is the loading issue. And it is also an issue on 4v4, not relevant here though.

However I can't afford to be so cavalier about labyrinth where time is of the essence. And to retort Zill, just because it runs fine for you doesn't mean it does for every competitive player. That aside, I would potentially have no issue with ctf if the map is bigger, or is a different map, like a 2v2 dust. But as it stands that map can be insta blocked so easily, and that is the huge issue with any ctf map in this game, and why crazy king is a much better option. If the un-capture time was 20 or 30 seconds, then the map would be competitive, and it wouldn't just be race to insta block and tank.

[RearAdmiralZill]

My point is not that it runs fine for me thus should stay. Rather, it is a weak argument to say that some people have issues loading that map, so we should just axe it from competition. I brought up 4v4 since (I imagine) a much larger majority of players have issues there, so it could be a more valid reason to consider its removal.

That just leaves us with the capture time, which while possibly not ideal currently, (new discussions could remedy that) is not an impossible hurdle to navigate for a team on the back foot.

It also plays into what 5-1 victories can look like when the game itself felt more like a 5-3. A lot of times, Laby will net a 600-0 score, but really it should look more like 600-350 given the fights over the points.

[Byron Cavendish]

Okay, but that's the whole point of this thread. I get that you like labyrinth, most of us like most of these maps. Hell, even I actually like labyrinth and Paritan. But the point of this thread is to get a census, an idea, a discussion as to which maps the competitive community think should go. This is my output, I am articulating that this map causes issues for me, and seeing as how it is the most voted map to go, clearly others as well. Sure if capture times get fixed, and if paritan/labyrinth gets it's rendering time optimized then it may be great for competitive. But I'm talking about right now.

[Swallox]

This thread is actually serveral months old at least. And I'd like to point out that by the current numbers, only 29.9% of voters want Laby to be removed. 6.5% would like Paritan to be removed. People had two votes for this thing, so I can only assume that there's some crossover, but 19.5% of voters would like NO maps to be removed.

Hell, there's a surprising number in favour of removing Dunes, which has entirely the opposite issue.

Either way, according to the current numbers, removing Laby goes against 70.1% of the voters who chose other things, 19.9% of which expressed that they didn't want to see any maps removed. Removing Paritan would go against 93.5% of voters according to the current numbers which are, admittedly, out of date.

This discussion pops up every few weeks during an active season... And my response is still the same. Cogs should continue to use all available 2v2 maps, regardless of game mode. If a map is shown to be disliked by a majority of the community AND doesn't lend itself to high-quality casted events, then it should be considered for removal... But I enjoy watching Laby matches, and I'm at least mildly sure there are others out there that enjoy it too.

However, Qwerty's running the Cogs for season 3, so it's his call this time around.

[Alistair MacBain]

Cant agree with this. The way koth works is just a way of play which doesnt fit into competetive atm. I remember a raft game on labyrinth in cogs season 2.
The enemy constantly killed the rafts pyra when it joined the fight. The only thing holding them alive was the junker of the raft. In any deathmatch the raft would have easily lost the match cause the pyra died so often. The junker just blocked the recapture of the point. As much as i liked the perfomance of the junker a competetive match should not be won by one boat. The recapture takes to long for a competetive environment. At such a high lvl u barely get the time to recapture it cause you need both enemy ships dead in nearly no time difference.

And sure you will not get a majority to vote for sth when there is such a varity of answers. If u want to have a majority you have to make a vote with yes or no. No other options. 2 answers so ppl could split up between these two.

[Frogger]

I remember a raft game on labyrinth in cogs season 2.

You are thinking of the Cogs Season 2 Week 5 Brood vs. Pastafarians match on Labyrinth.

[N-Sunderland]

I remember a raft game on labyrinth in cogs season 2.

You are thinking of the Cogs Season 2 Week 5 Brood vs. Pastafarians match on Labyrinth.

Yeah, as much as I wish could take credit for Sammy's performace, that was definitely The Brood.

But your point still stands, Alistair.

[Sammy B. T.]

Cant agree with this. The way koth works is just a way of play which doesnt fit into competetive atm. I remember a raft game on labyrinth in cogs season 2.
The enemy constantly killed the rafts pyra when it joined the fight. The only thing holding them alive was the junker of the raft. In any deathmatch the raft would have easily lost the match cause the pyra died so often. The junker just blocked the recapture of the point. As much as i liked the perfomance of the junker a competetive match should not be won by one boat. The recapture takes to long for a competetive environment. At such a high lvl u barely get the time to recapture it cause you need both enemy ships dead in nearly no time difference.

And sure you will not get a majority to vote for sth when there is such a varity of answers. If u want to have a majority you have to make a vote with yes or no. No other options. 2 answers so ppl could split up between these two.

My Junker survivd for so long because we were using the Pyra as distraction. We went into that game with a mindset of not worrying about the kills so much as preventing recapture. It was one of the most tactical games the Brood has ever played for both ships. to use a football analogy Ivan's Pyra was the running back we faked the ball too and the opposing team's resources were too split to stop the hail mary sent to the open wide receiver. Sure the wide receiver got the play, but thats because he was given an opening to the guy who got laid out.

[Byron Cavendish]

It is a tactic for sure, but...it's tactic looking to exploit a game type weakness. That being extra long capture times with a tank ship on a small map. Tactics are needed for sure but it still stands to say whoever gets there first and tanks will probably win. Like I said, I actually like labyrinth and Paritan, and Paritan isn't as much an issue. Even though they both render horribly, causing me long loads, at least in Paritan there is no immediate danger. But labyrinth is a victim of bad capture mechanics, and if Muse actually makes capturing easier, than I think it wouldn't be such a negatively viewed map for competitive.

[RearAdmiralZill]

So, it is exploiting to use a map's natural tactics to win? (aka, capture and then hold a point.)

[Byron Cavendish]

That's not what I said, and you even admired the timer is a bit too long. I'm not going to keep circling this issue. I've said my piece, I respect your opinion, respect mine, I expect that of you.

[RearAdmiralZill]

It is a tactic for sure, but...it's tactic looking to exploit a game type weakness.

Forgive me for reading this and not think you are calling it exploiting. Perhaps you could word it better.

While I can give you the point that takes a long time to cap once its already been captured, its not impossible if you keep your momentum and don't blindly rush in one at a time

That just leaves us with the capture time, which while possibly not ideal currently, (new discussions could remedy that) is not an impossible hurdle to navigate for a team on the back foot.

Also, do not put words into my posts. Perhaps I worded the second one improperly, but if such a thread were to be made, i'd argue that the capture point was fine, and the point counter to win should increase to give teams more time to capture it.

Respect goes both ways.