Author Topic: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP  (Read 3120 times)

Offline .Costa.

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Hey yo, I'm just here to leave these suggestions, idk if any of these are already planned or not, but i think it would be cool to implement them.

Story/Campaign Mode for Alliance: It could be like a combination of every pve mode, a set of missions that would take place in differents stages, like: Assault part, that would lead to a Defense part, then an Infiltration part, and would end on another Assault.
It would simulate the battles that happen in a war, and I know the existent modes already work for that, but if only they were connected someho. Maybe with a storyline with actual characters from the factions with some voice acting.
(Illustrative example of a 'Campaign mode')

Health Bars for PvP: They're just brilliant in Alliance, and it would reeeeally help newbies, as they keep on firing mortars into full armored ships thinking they're actually doing serious damage. Big and small crosshairs are nice and subtle but I don't think they're enough for new players.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 02:26:00 am by .Costa. »

Offline Naoura

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 02:40:12 am »
For the PvP health bars, you actually *can* tell how much damage you've done to an enemy ship, because the model changes very visibly. Armor health is what you're looking for, but if that were included, it most likely would make the game much too easy, and would ruin a bit of the atmosphere and immersion for the match.

As for the Alliance Story mode theory, I'm actually quite glad someone else had a similar idea! My version on this was a kind of "Campaign" for each faction, in which you went through each type of mission once for a substantial gain at the end. One per customer, but completing the campaign can reap substantial rewards for both you and your faction.

Offline .Costa.

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 02:59:19 am »
Maybe if they made the armor health visible as a default, and then made an option to hide it if needed then. I don't see the game being easy to play as a problem.. I mean, it should be that easy to play, hard to master kind of deal.
Immersion and atmosphere are really important, so the option to hide is a nice touch I guess o/

And yeaah, the story mode thing is soo damn nice, man. The Campaign for each faction would be super cool! With bigger rewards for the world map, to compensate dedication, as if you were a soldier who participated in many battles instead of just one "random" battle.

Or maybe regional campaigns, with their own specific set of game modes, for example:

"The X Location Campaign": Defense - Small Boss, Blockade - Medium Boss, Infiltrate - Boss, Assault - Big Big Boss fight!

Offline Psi Crow

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 06:38:14 am »
Healthbars: just no. They could be included in Novice matches though, with a short explanation what they are and that they won't be in real matches.

Story Mode: I would like that too, but I don't think it will make to the agenda anytime soon. I could imagine it even as some sort of DLC, but that's kind of a sensitive topic with this game.

Offline Schwalbe

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 08:04:08 am »
Healthbars in PVP: ...not having them is forcing you to actually learn to assert how much health the enemy have based on the model and forces communication with your ally to have proper info... so this is a big no.

Offline Naoura

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2017, 02:37:57 pm »
Psi, the "Campaign" theory here is for a set of missions. Not a DLC, an addition to the world map.

For example; the new mechanic on points you can conquer in a region. You fight for each point on the map as you go, until you conquer the territory. The idea is similar, going through several types of missions until you beat them all, getting a wonderful boost at the end.

Think of it like an exercise routine; complete x Assaults, complete x Infiltrations, and complete x Retrievals in y amount of time. One per customer, but enough of a boost to tip the scales.

Offline .Costa.

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2017, 06:08:25 pm »
The Novice Match Healthbar might be good enough I guess. The point of it is just to scream "DON'T SHOOT THE FLAK/MORTAR INTO THAT SHIP DUDE, AT LEAST NOT NOW LOL".. What I mean is that some players just don't speak your language and/or are kids, or even people that do not communicate at all for their own reasons, and they just see a cool gun that they want to fire at the enemy, and I don't blame them at all for that (Most guns of the game are indeed pretty cool). So with a health bar they would see why they're not killing the enemy ship and wouldn't just rage quit out of the game.

But it does ruin the atmosphere and communication of a normal game.. a little bit.. turns it into a moba sort of kind of.. The disable option would come in handy right here... oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And yes, the campaign should be a set of missions and addition to the world map, a connection between matches(maybe more lore). They made that cool addition to the world map, the one where you see all the battles in a specific region, maybe they could link the campaign to that

Offline Psi Crow

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2017, 09:13:27 pm »
@naoura so basically a achievement path, but with more visibility and some lore/story?

Offline Naoura

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2017, 01:34:37 am »
Kind of. Either that or just one of each type of mission on each difficulty, with the possibility for a resource at the end. It'd be for the worldbuilders and lore-players, more so than anything, but it could end up being fun.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2017, 11:43:45 pm »
Health bars in PvP would be a good thing, if done in a way that encourages team communication. Asserting that everyone should just learn the armor values, HP values, and damage stage percentages.... "get good" comes to mind.

I want the spyglass to work the same way it does in Alliance, both for consistency and gameplay improvement. In Alliance, you only see the enemy HP in three ways. One is if you deal damage. Not needed in PvP as it is a skill-less feature. Second is with captain spot. Also not needed for the same reason. The simple captain spot is enough. The third way is actively looking at a spotted ship zoomed in on a target. This is perfect behavior for PvP, as only the person with the spyglass can see the HP, encouraging communication. It adds an extra level of use to the spyglass, which is simply a click and forget tool. If it also showed HP, that would add some value for even a pilot to use.

And example taken from Alliance practice. You only see this when actively using the spyglass.


Offline Naoura

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 09:31:57 am »
I disagree on that, Richard. The Skirmish build already technically has health bars in the way your ship deteriorates as you take hull damage. You already have a very, very visible break to an enemy ships armor, and a couple rounds of experience would tell you 'this one is stronger than this one'.

You don't need the full knowledge of armor hitpoints to know that the Pyramidion is a little tankier than a Squid, that's visible just from playstyle. You'll note that a Pyra has lower health compared to a Goldfish when you see the Pyra enter stage 3 faster than a Goldfish.

Putting a health bar on the spyglass takes away from the experience, not adds. You can already tell that an opponent is low health by how damaged their ship looks. You can already tell if their armor is broken by the graphic that plays. At range, you do the exact same thing with the spyglass without the need to throw in a blank and standard health bar over their ship.

Offline GurasOguras

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2017, 09:36:55 am »
Several years ago the following mechanics were present in the game:

- Reloading your gun with special ammunition required you to be on the gun at the end of reload. This required good timing from the players to repair while the gun is reloading, but also be on the gun when that reload is finished.
- There was no stamina so you had to carefully plan your route around the ship. Mobula could either have its crew shoot or repair and was overall much more difficult ship to play and was a high risk - high reward ship.
- A fire was much more dangerous and being able to use chem spray effectively is what made a difference between a veteran engie and a noob. One flamethrower could make an entire difference in the engagement (especially without stamina) Now you just give everyone extinguisher.

Richard, I beg you. For the sake of all that's still making this game great please do not post any ideas to lower the skill cap further anymore. I've had enough.


That's how it should be done. Collecting such data was very time-consuming and precious to me. It would be a direct blow to all who put their time and effort into getting good at the game.

You wanna know how much permahull does the other ship have?


Being able to win the engagement with 1% permahull is very important for the competitive play. And as you know competitive is never about sheer numbers. If spyglass would allow looking at ship's health (possibly through clouds and obstacles as long as the target is still marked by the other ship) then no one would care and just rush ship with less health instead of cooperating in order to beat the entire team in the engagement.

Offline Rareform K. Rozhkov

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2017, 10:37:52 am »
For the sake of all that's still making this game great please do not post any ideas to lower the skill cap further anymore. I've had enough.
this
Healthbars in PVP: ...not having them is forcing you to actually learn to assert how much health the enemy have based on the model and forces communication with your ally to have proper info...
and this
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 10:45:59 am by Captain Slork Glork »

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2017, 12:14:53 pm »
Healthbars in PVP: ...not having them is forcing you to actually learn to assert how much health the enemy have based on the model and forces communication with your ally to have proper info...


Pretty true.

Many times in a match its communicated how many shots from X gun went into the enemy ship's exposed armor. With time and recognizing the damage models of the ship, a player can get a general idea of the percentage of health remaining. Many many times have I had adrenalin fueled matches where I was telling the gatling gun to keep firing and they will get a gatling kill. They had to trust that call because I made it based off my knowledge.

Offline Naoura

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Re: Single/Coop Story Mode for Alliance - And Health Bars for PVP
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2017, 01:17:08 pm »
Richard's heart is in the right place with this. He wants the game to be a lot more accessible to lower levels, draw in more players, try and open the game up from the elites, and to draw in more players.

The problem with that is trying to strike the balance between the Patricians and the Plebians. Plebs want more opened to them, more power, more capability, while the Patricians want nothing for it. Vets know the game inside out, backwards and forwards. Plebs are still trying to figure out how to swap ammos.

Partly, this is due to bad tutorials, bad expectations from the devs, and toxicity from vets who are tired of helping nublets learn the game. I'm guilty of it myself, even though I've helped at least.... 10-20 nublet crews? Not just a single novice, but the entire crew. They learn as much as they can, but Guns is not a simple game, even if it's a simple premise. But that's neither here nor there to this discussion.

You can only offer the newer players so much, and can only give them so much. Higher levels need something too, to keep them in the game. Not as much, I don't think, since we are (mostly) all friends here, and come to have a good time with one another. The core game is sound. It's what the newer players have to walk into that fails them. The core game doesn't need too much in the way of changing, with the exception of minor tweaks to balance meta and try and keep the game alive, but it doesn't need to change too overly much.

My point is this; if you want to help newer players, fix the Tutorials, again. Have the players have an impact on tutorials, with some oversight so that newer players aren't innundated with information.

 Loosen up on the engineering tutorial, let the player try to fix the armor with whatever tool he or she likes, and see how effective or ineffective a tool is. Give them an actual 'combat scenario' where the armor is taking damage for a few seconds, and they fail if they let the armor fall.

Expand the Gunner tutorial, and make it an actual tutorial, not an on rails mortar shooter. Teach them to use different ammunition,  use several different weapon types, and actually have a similar combat scenario, better than the one we currently have.

Pilot is the one that I honestly think is okay, no complaints on my memories of that one.

As for Novice DM... honestly? If you're below a certain level, make it a requirement. People who are quick-playing need at least a match or two playing against AI, with allied crew, in order to learn the game. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, it needs to be a requirement before you're allowed into regular play. It teaches, reinforces, and expands a novice's knowledge base so that they can actually play the game. Just make it an extension of the matchmaker and match list if you're below level 5. You'll actually understand the bleeding game if you go through the tutorials, and a few matches there will have you in regular play in a moment.