Author Topic: Chemical damage; New damage type and mechanic discussion.  (Read 2415 times)

Offline Naoura

  • Member
  • Salutes: 25
    • [Sass]
    • 31 
    • 45
    • 32 
    • View Profile
Chemical damage; New damage type and mechanic discussion.
« on: January 28, 2017, 12:47:22 pm »
I know it's been discussed before, but I do want to see if the discussion could be brought up again.

The only lasting damage mechanic we currently have in Skirmish is Fire. Akin to 'poison' in other games, Fire is a staple, either for diable or kill depending on how you build it. A Squid with a flamer and a carronade can be lethal to a Galleon balloon, though a successul chem-cycle or a quick extinguisher can save the day.

While I know Alliance will keep any and all suggestions for Skirmish not even on the stove, let alone the backburner, I at least wanted to see what the discussion on a debuffing mechanic would be. My suggestion; Chemical damage/ Acid.

Chemical damage would be very different from Fire on a mechanical basis. Where Fire would absolutely require extinguishing, or it will sit with you forever, Acid/ Chemical would tick down, dealing damage per lost stack. Example;

10 stacks of Chem
2 damage per stack applied.
1 stack is expended every second.
Damage applied; 20 damage over 10 seconds.
Stacks expended, no further damage.

This may seem like rather trivial damage, and not worth it to bring Chemical weaponry or Ammunition (Basically incen for Chem), but I do think that a debuff should be the strength of the weapon, rather than damage. My proposal; increases the effect of all ofther damage types by 20% on the effected component. Example;

Armor is currently under the effects of Chem/Acid (5 stacks)
Chemical damage over 5 seconds is equal to 10 damage
An ally fires on the target, hitting their armor with an Artemis
Armor modifier for explosive- 70x0.3=21 damage to armor.
Acid/Chem modifier- 21+20%=25.2 Explosive
Armor modifier for Shatter- 120x0.2=24
Acid/Chem modifier- 24+20%=28.8
Overall damage- 54

This damage modifier means that sniping ships would be able to add stacks of chemical damage from a distance, allowing cloer range, brawling ships the ability to engage much more effectively, and dangerously.

Naturally, something must exist to counter this, similar to fire Ext and Chemspray. So I would propose something akin to a Neutralizer, which acts as Ext to Chemical damage. Where Neutralizer is reactionary, Chemspray would remain preventative. Now, the relationship Neutralizer and Extiguisher have is similar to Chemspray extinguishing a fire; Not wholly ineffective, but inefficient. Neutralizer trying to extiguish a fire would remove 3 stacks, as Extinguisher trying to remove Chemical stacks would remove 3 stacks. A new reactionary tool, yes, making Chemical spray very powerful. This might need some tweaking, but I kind of want it to stay as a iddle-ground, preventative tool. This does reward higher level play with Chemspray, but it also adds a new reactionary measure, meaning Captains would have to coordinate more with their crew.

These are just my suggestions for it, but I want to see what everyone else thinks. I know it wouldn't be adding much, just a mechanic that would have to go through extensive testing so as to not be overpowered or to be useless, but I would hope it would mean that Muse woul dhave to implement new weaponry, as there would be a new mechanic. It would automatically offer a new ammunition type, basically just the Incen for Acid/Chem damage. That would have to go through a lot of testing as well, and would likely result in an Incen buff for the new Chem ammunition.

Discussion, hopefully a go.

Offline Carn

  • Member
  • Salutes: 63
    • [DAGZ]
    • 31 
    • 26
    • 16 
    • View Profile
Re: Chemical damage; New damage type and mechanic discussion.
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2017, 01:13:25 pm »
I like the idea, I'd like at least one long range and one short range varient.  The damage multiplier in particular is what I like about it, would make sniper support more viable when partnered with a brawler.

Offline Helios.

  • Member
  • Salutes: 14
    • [Clan]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 37 
    • View Profile
Re: Chemical damage; New damage type and mechanic discussion.
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2017, 01:28:21 pm »
my suggestion is make the damage increase oportional to the number of stacks on teh component. just a little bit of debuff? not the end of the world. full stacks (however many that woudl be) of debuff? very bad news indeed

Offline Unarmed Civilian

  • Member
  • Salutes: 12
    • [◥ɸ◤]
    • 33 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Chemical damage; New damage type and mechanic discussion.
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2017, 05:20:52 pm »
You people need to start making abstracts for these posts. I had to read this 3 times.

It is really hard to follow since "chem" means chemspray here.

So you are basically proposing a temporary, timed debuff that does damage over time and acts as a damage multiplier, correct?


I don't really see what this adds to the game. Sniper support already does damage and disables stuff. A brawler's gonna focus either on anti-balloon or just kill them outright, so debuffs on components won't matter a ton. Plus if you could hit those components with the debuff, you could've hit them with an artemis. Unless of course the damage bonus is extremely reliable and much easier to apply, in which case it would replace the other. See TF2's sniper rifle vs sydney sleeper.

Offline Naoura

  • Member
  • Salutes: 25
    • [Sass]
    • 31 
    • 45
    • 32 
    • View Profile
Re: Chemical damage; New damage type and mechanic discussion.
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2017, 08:08:12 pm »
Sorry for the confusion there, Unarmed. Acid damage it is then, as Chemical damage is confusing.

Yes, long range disable is incredibly useful, especially on higher level ships. Engines going down means that the ship cannot move properly, weapons going down, their damage, etc. But the idea here is to encourage a support role, especially in a 3v3. Whereas other ships would focus completely on kill or disable, this ship can focus on denying an enemy their engagement. Say a Pyra is going to engage on a Junker, who has a Spire in range. The Spire manages to land an Acid based (Ha) weapon onto the Pyra's armor, giving the Pyra 5-10 stacks of Acid. The armor on the Pyra is now 20% less resistant to damage, meaning that the Junker has an advantage in the fight.

I was kind of hoping to go for a gas-release, similar to the gas mortar (maybe allow it to be brought over form Alliance in a modified format), or else have it be an AoE weapon that is incredibly easy to hit with, even at range. I'm still trying to find the math for fire chance per-component, though I do want Acid to have a slightly higher chance, if much less damage. For having a higher debuff per stack... I dunno, that might make it a little too powerful, though it would mean that the debuffs would be very powerful. A little too powerful in my opinion... I'd rather it be focused on the team aspect, helping allies deal damage to an enemy more effectively. That could make the argument for increasing it per stack, but I'm worried about it being too powerful in that event, especially with an AoE dispersal method.

OH! And I also didn't get to mention earlier; Fire and Acid are mutually exclusive. A component CANNOT be under Fire effect while it is under Acid effect. Had to get ready for work as I was writing this.

Glad I've got SOME discussion on this, at least. I was afraid it'd be like my weapon concepts...

Offline Aethelfrith

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 6
    • [❤❤❤❤]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Chemical damage; New damage type and mechanic discussion.
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2017, 11:29:23 pm »
Definitely an interesting idea, but anything that throws the current meta off the rails is.