Author Topic: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals  (Read 2035 times)

Offline Atruejedi

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#AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« on: January 20, 2017, 03:15:35 pm »
Thousands of messages have been exchanged between participates in The Council (Skype link). This thread exists to poll players about our tentatively approved proposals for BURST ammunition. The most popular proposals are as follows:

Burst Ammo Proposals

BURST AMMO _______________
   
Damage _____
   
Clip Size _____
   
Rate of Fire _____
   
Area of Effect Radius _____
   
Current Stats
   
0%
   
20%
   
-15%
   
+50%
   
Proposed Stats Option 1
   
0%
   
0%
   
-15%
   
+50%
   
Proposed Stats Option 2
   
0%
   
0%
   
-15%
   
+40%
   

Notes:
Option 1 removes the clip increase to make other ammunition choices more attractive on the Artemis and Hwacha.
Option 2 removes the clip increase to make other ammunition choices more attractive on the Artemis and Hwacha and also decreases the AoE increase by 10% to +40%.

This table is designed for you to reply with quote to this thread and select the option with which you most agree by deleting the other proposals. Each proposal is grouped between the [ TR]  and [ /TR ] tags, so remove those lines of code as necessary. Good luck!

Personally, I vote for option 1... because we had no arguments over this. Although I did suggest an AoE decrease, but I'm not sure if it's needed. So I didn't even vote for my own proposal, lolz
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 03:28:53 pm by Atruejedi »

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2017, 03:21:06 pm »
Personally, I vote for option 1... because we had no arguments over this.

There was an argument against it: it removes its use on every gun except hwatcha, artemis, and secondary use on mine. Currently, the clip boost gives it primary use on Hflak and Lflak, and secondary use on lumberjack and mortar. The purpose of the proposal is to nerf Hwatcha and Artemis, which I don't support if it removes its use on every other gun

In the absence of a better option, I vote to leave burst unchanged
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 03:24:46 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Kestril

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2017, 04:04:42 pm »
BURST AMMO _______________
   
Damage _____
   
Clip Size _____
   
Rate of Fire _____
   
Area of Effect Radius _____
   
Proposed Stats Option 1
   
0%
   
0%
   
-15%
   
+50%
   

I'm for option 1.

While the hwacha and artimis may need some attention, I think option 1 makes burst still useful for mines, lumberjack, hwacha, and artimis. After option 1 goes in, we can better see how powerful these guns are in the absence of the clip size boost.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 04:09:24 pm by Kestril »

Offline BobDoleReigns

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 04:32:14 pm »
Leave it alone; as blackend has already said, if you're after hwatcha (artemies isn't really a problem imo) then go after hwatcha not the ammo. The only thing this will affect is the killing guns (and flamer) which are in desperate need of some love anyways. (which will be accomplished once loch is reverted)(side note this is yet another reason to leave heavy ammo alone as the -clip penalty is the only reason people prefer potshots with burst hawatcha instead of heavy sniping)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 04:48:37 pm by BobDoleReigns »

Offline Daelf

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 04:46:40 pm »
I like the idea of more ammo on burst, might make it 10% instead of 20%, and make AoE reduced to 40% might be a good nerf.

Offline Mirwen

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 05:16:20 pm »
None of the proposed change.

Increased aoe is almost only interesting for shatter damage, which concerns mostly hwacha and artemis anyway. Removing the clipsize bonus makes it unattractive for all other weapons. Tweak the two mentioned guns instead.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 05:29:00 pm »
Sounds like there's demand for a third option: keep the clip but reduce AoE. This has a minimal effect on guns like Lflak, Hflak, and Lumber, where the use of burst is the larger clip. AoE could be 40% or 30%

Proposed Stats Option 3
   
0%
   
20%
   
-15%
   
+40%
   
I like the idea of more ammo on burst, might make it 10% instead of 20%, and make AoE reduced to 40% might be a good nerf.

10% clip bonus would have no effect on most guns, including Lflak, Hflak, Lumberjack, and Artemis

« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 05:31:17 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2017, 07:07:49 pm »
Changing the clip size to +10% would be 1 fewer shot on h.flak, hades, banshee, artemis, mortar and minotar, 2 fewer on hwacha, no change on lumberjack or l.flak

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2017, 07:20:20 pm »
Changing the clip size to +10% would be 1 fewer shot on h.flak, hades, banshee, artemis, mortar and minotar, 2 fewer on hwacha, no change on lumberjack or l.flak

I missed rounding. In other words, the lumberjack and Lflak would would still have the same extra shot as the +20% clip, but Hflak, Taur, and artemis wouldn't. For this reason, I think +20% clip makes sense
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 07:22:27 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline gully-foyle

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2017, 08:56:19 pm »
None of the proposed change.

Increased aoe is almost only interesting for shatter damage, which concerns mostly hwacha and artemis anyway. Removing the clipsize bonus makes it unattractive for all other weapons. Tweak the two mentioned guns instead.

^^^ this

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2017, 11:03:01 pm »
I had the random thought of -10% velocity. Perhaps in combination with other changes. This would discourage exclusive Burst of long range guns.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2017, 04:24:37 am »
I had the random thought of -10% velocity. Perhaps in combination with other changes. This would discourage exclusive Burst of long range guns.


So you can kill the (underused) Burst Hades, the (also underused but just as good) Burst Light Flak and Burst Lumberjack?

Please. Just admit it already. You have 0 problems the way Burst is with the exception of it's usage on Hwacha and Artemis. Make a thread on those guns instead. I find the notion of Burst becoming an uninteresting ammo type very frightening.

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2017, 07:24:29 am »
So you can kill the (underused) Burst Hades, the (also underused but just as good) Burst Light Flak and Burst Lumberjack?

I loooove Burst Hades and Burst Light Flak (and Burst Mortar!). I would love Burst Lumberjack but I suck. I feel like removing the clip size wouldn't affect how much I love/use Burst in those guns. But a velocity decrease? Yeah... that might make me avoid it. So I'm with Keb on this.

@Keb, what do you think of JUST the removed clip increase?

Quote
Please. Just admit it already. You have 0 problems the way Burst is with the exception of it's usage on Hwacha and Artemis.

I'll admit it! I absolutely have a problem with the fact that the Artemis and Hwacha use Burst 98% of the time. There's no downside. There should never be a "one right answer" ammo for a gun.

Removing the superfluous ammunition increase, to me, makes Burst less attractive and therefore other ammos more attractive. Specifically, I foresee the removal of the Burst clip increase resulting in increased (but not overwhelming) use of Heavy in the Hwacha and Greased in the Artemis.

Offline Unarmed Civilian

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2017, 10:40:49 am »

BURST AMMO _______________
   
Damage _____
   
Clip Size _____
   
Rate of Fire _____
   
Area of Effect Radius _____
   
Proposed Stats Option 1
   
0%
   
0%
   
-15%
   
+50%
   


It's the least extreme option. We want to nerf it to make it balanced, not nerf it into the ground.

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: #AmmotudeAdjustment - BURST ammunition proposals
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2017, 12:17:14 pm »
The argument here is a gun using one ammo exclusively is a problem. But, the heacha is sorta a one trick pony bar long range heavy clip hull integrity damage or vital component disable which is hard to pull off.

Its just a really good gun that doesnt need help with ammo because it only has one real job in the current meta thus taking only one ammo.

No other gun faces this issue except the mercury.  To an extent the banshee (i blame heavy clip size reduction on that).


Srry, don't have any input. I'm shit at balance type stuff. I just don't have an issue with burst.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 12:44:57 pm by Solidusbucket »