Author Topic: 1.4.8 balance testing  (Read 3954 times)

Offline Keyvias

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1.4.8 balance testing
« on: September 28, 2016, 12:49:14 pm »
hey everyone,

We did a week of blind testing that went well. Here are the numbers we used.
We'll be doing more testing this weekend.

Mobula
Forward Speed: 25 from 28
Forward Acceleration: 4.25 from 5
Turn Speed: 10.5 from 14
Inner guns turned 10 degrees forward to 35 degrees from 45
Outer guns turned 10 degrees forward to 40 degrees from 50

Squid
Armor increase to 350 fro 230
Hull health decrease to 650 from 950

Offline Dementio

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2016, 01:06:59 pm »
Behold! The Fancy Fairy returns to pierce all you Sillymidions!


gg

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2016, 01:30:42 pm »
Any Spire buffs coming to the dev app? Because I don't care what the data tells Muse, the Spire needs changes; the damn thing is a magnet for enemy fire, especially the devastating Hades. Gimme armor or hull buffs with increased vertical mobility. Make it the whirling death cannon it's supposed to be.

Offline Keyvias

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2016, 01:31:35 pm »
We want to focus smaller problem, rather than the last large balance patch and then silence from us for months.

Offline GurasOguras

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2016, 01:38:13 pm »
YAY! Silly mobula builds are back! Awesome, I love it. Squid changes too - It was way more tough and capable of staying alive than any other ship.

Behold! The Fancy Fairy returns to pierce all you Sillymidions!
With Your Drill, Pierce the Heavens! :D

We want to focus smaller problem, rather than the last large balance patch and then silence from us for months.
You're moving in the good direction. Well done.

Offline Aethelfrith

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2016, 03:25:20 pm »
Case in point, I played on a Spire today. We lost the game 0-5, and our ally didn't die once. We had a good captain and crew, but when the enemy focused on us, despite the efforts of us or our allies, we blew up in seconds. It's just too weak to be viable in a 2v2.

Offline GurasOguras

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2016, 03:46:32 pm »
It's just too weak to be viable in a 2v2.
It is viable in any game, but the problem is that it requires being concealed from the opponent until you want to commit and annihilate them on approach. The Spire requires a completely different mindset of piloting and it is not a frontline fighter like a pyramidion or goldfish. It's also worth to bring it only on paritan ruins and canyons.

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2016, 03:49:21 pm »
Case in point, I played on a Spire today. We lost the game 0-5, and our ally didn't die once. We had a good captain and crew, but when the enemy focused on us, despite the efforts of us or our allies, we blew up in seconds. It's just too weak to be viable in a 2v2.

I just played against you, didn't I?

I had a junker with two hades and a pyramidion ally. Kind of a lot of pressure.

I took a spire the next match and won on blackcliff. I had the same ally you had (Mr. Gray) and he took the same junker against a hwatcha fish and lumber fish.


I'm honestly fine with the spire. I feel its balanced. It sucks at long range and closing distances against a hades or lumber but really, the only ships that don't suck at that are the goldfish (sorta) and squid (mostly).


« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 03:58:49 pm by Solidusbucket »

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2016, 04:06:45 pm »
As I just answered in Skype Mob Counsel, the problem with the Mobula is not the horizontal or turning. Both of those were fine. The problem is with its vertical dodging ability. If that were rolled back some, it would be sufficient. Maybe nerf the acceleration, but increase the top vertical speed.

Wiki places all ships at 17m/s max vertical speed with Mobula on top. If the acceleration was dropped, the Mobula would have a harder time doing fast vertical maneuvers, but could still max out more than other ships.

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2016, 05:33:34 pm »
Yes, against all logic and reason, all of the advice given on how to properly and rationally balance the Mobula is continually rejected out of hand because insane vertical mobility makes the Mobula "unique"... well, fuck that, move that "unique" aspect to the Spire, where it makes sense from a gameplay, lore, and aesthetic set of reasons.

Whoever is in charge of balance suffers from oppositional defiance disorder.

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2016, 06:02:52 pm »
The horizontal speed was a serious problem for any attempt at Junker vs Mobula, can't beat it at long range, can't get to short range because it can reverse almost as fast as you go forwards (all while shooting your engines and keeping its hidden).


Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2016, 06:18:21 pm »
Yes, against all logic and reason, all of the advice given on how to properly and rationally balance the Mobula is continually rejected out of hand because insane vertical mobility makes the Mobula "unique"... well, fuck that, move that "unique" aspect to the Spire, where it makes sense from a gameplay, lore, and aesthetic set of reasons.

Whoever is in charge of balance suffers from oppositional defiance disorder.

we all know who that is...

Offline Dementio

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Re: 1.4.8 balance testing
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2016, 06:40:53 pm »
A nerf to vertical mobility against Mobula to bring it a little bit closer to the other ships would be kinda alright, but what really keeps the ship in the engagements are top speed and its horizontal accerleration. Fish trying to circle a Mobula? Oh what is that, its horizontal acceleration matches the Goldfish'? Why, don't mind if I Stamina Kerosene and turn right around to shoot it into its side, annhilating its 400 armor, keeping the hull engineer away from the engines, snipe the engines with no effort from that range and finish of the kill on that stationary Fish!

Flying up and down is nice and all, but it doesn't keep guns aimed at what is actually close. You may lose gun arcs against the Mobula, but the Mobula also loses gun arcs against you. Just predict the predictable hydrogen and then proceed to outmanouver it on the horizontal plane or if it didn't pay attention and is in front of its ally, proceed to casually fly past it, focus firing its ally while it is still trying to turn around.

Being able to move all 5 of its guns back into arc on the horizontal plane against even the fastest ships in the game was the real problem. The same went for the old Metamidion that had enough horizontal and turning acceleration to Gatling and Mortar literally everything, regardless of their speed and health.