Author Topic: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2  (Read 27670 times)

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2013, 10:17:38 am »
Pretty good assessment uriak.

I'm waiting to see how mines and fire changes affect squid use but the carousel and flamethrower have always been excellent side guns for a Squid due to turning arc and disabling and the mine Launcher is an obvious choice for the rear gun so I'm expecting this ship to make a comeback.

As for the Galleon I've always seen that as an experts ship since it requires top level engineering, gunning, flying and a competent teammate to boot.  When it has that though, it is an incredible force to be reckoned with.

The Spire, so tough to know what that one needs. It has a giant hit box and a super wimpy hull. More Maneuverability and maybe even more speed wouldn't hurt. I wonder if it would be possible though to give it a slightly more slender hit box. Right now it's almost impossible to miss.

Offline Imagine

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2013, 11:12:12 am »
I'll always have a soft spot for the Spire, used to run around with the gat/hwacha combo (back when the heavy flaks ruled the skies) and absolutely demolished people with that build, provided I had a half-competent crew. It's still fun to pull it out sometimes, but yeah, I think most folk have realized just how squishy a spire is and immediately turn on it the moment it arrives into the fray.

I'm not sure what could be done about it that wouldn't be game breaking either, but it would be neat to have it have a resurgence of use like the Junker has gotten recently :)

Offline Charlemagne Montigue

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #77 on: June 01, 2013, 04:09:08 pm »
The poor Spire, I know I tend to target them when they are on the battlefield. I think they need to be able to turn on a dime. They aren't really streamlined to be fast, but they should be able to turn like nobodies business. This way as ships have to physically steer their ships around it, it can just spin in place and keep firing. I think also possibly giving it another medium gun wouldn't be game breaking. Whereas the galleon is the slow heavily armored weapons platform, the spire could be the lighter more agile weapons platform. It would take up more of a damage dealing support role, not going directly into the fray, but dealing out damage from a stationary position while a teammate chases to finish them off.

Offline Mr Pleebus

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #78 on: June 05, 2013, 01:42:58 pm »
I am an engineer aboard a pyra, I'm finding that out of all the ships I've been on it's by far the easiest to engineer, Using rubber mallet I can hit the hull and then all engines before the cooldown of the hull even expires, the only awkward thing is the balloon, which is solved by having another engineer... Anyone else think there's a balance problem here?

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #79 on: June 05, 2013, 01:54:24 pm »
It is balanced. It has horrendous turning and only functionally has combat effectiveness in the front and slight effectiveness on one side. Its a tank, not a god.

Offline Mr Pleebus

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #80 on: June 05, 2013, 03:13:35 pm »
I completely agree with you that it's balanced in terms of guns and piloting :) my concern was the massive ease with which it can be kept in good repair. Even under heavy fire a fairly inexperienced player (such as myself..) can keep it going.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #81 on: June 05, 2013, 03:25:40 pm »
Well maybe you should give yourself some credit as a good engineer then, lol. More to the point though, the pyra is designed to have a main engie and a top engie. This obviously separates them, and forces one to carry a lot more workload. To compare, a goldfish keeps both the engineer's busy with repairs while the gunner does his thing. You couldn't keep a goldfish up with just one engie.

Regardless of it being easy to get to hull and engines, if your engines are down, and the hull is taking fire, as one engie you have a lot of choice there, where on a goldfish, two engies are running around fixing things simultaneously.

Clear as flak?

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #82 on: June 05, 2013, 03:49:02 pm »
The goldfish can still put out 100% of its firepower with two engineers camping a red hull, where as the Pyra looses 50% of its fire power under the same conditions. As a Pyra pilot I occasionally jump off the helm to help with the hull if it is about to go red. It is a very situational trick, but it has helped me win some slugging matches I would have other wise lost. It helps to cut out as much rotational momentum as possible and fly slightly in reverse before leaving the helm. Also screaming "Jesus take the wheel" over crew chat before you do this is always good for a laugh.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 03:51:07 pm by HamsterIV »

Offline Mr Pleebus

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #83 on: June 05, 2013, 03:56:32 pm »
Thanks Zill, that's cleared a lot up, didn't think about the fact that anything less than 2 gunners basically makes pyra useless :L And the reversing Pyra trick is a truly beautiful thing when done properly :D

Offline Echoez

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #84 on: June 12, 2013, 10:14:43 pm »
I think I should bring up the Spire again.

Right now I believe that the only 'viable' build is the Lumberjack sniper Spire, it's the only weapon that can keep enemies away from it while it can keep firing at them without fear of its fragile armor and hull going away in the blink of an eye.

Hwacha Spire, while it can work, is not as effective as one would believe and getting close range to the real battleships with a Spire is a deathwish for sure if the enemy has a clue.

Heavy Flak won't do it, it's not powerful enough for a single heavy weapon, it's a finisher and one Mercury on top deck can only do so much before the enemy storm rushes you and roflpwns your hull. (But I guess it also depents on your gunners a bit too much)

As hard as I try to manuverer, against competative pilots, only the Lumberjack was proven to be effective and Hwacha up to some point, so I just wanted to post my concern about my, I could say, favorite ship in this game. ( I absolutely adore its looks. )

Of course, that's just personal input, anyone agree?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 10:42:12 pm by EchoLG »

Offline Mattiator

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #85 on: June 12, 2013, 10:45:13 pm »
I have similar issues with the Spire, though I suspect as more medium guns are implemented we will see more guns suited to the Spire's role as a sniper.

Offline Echoez

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #86 on: June 13, 2013, 08:28:32 am »
I have similar issues with the Spire, though I suspect as more medium guns are implemented we will see more guns suited to the Spire's role as a sniper.

My problem is, the Spire is already a decent sniper, it has 1 light and 1 medium gun facing forward, but it's manuvering lacks options, it can't keep distance because it's deadfully slow and while its turning speed is enough to keep your guns on the enemy while sniping, it's not enough when you want to quickly turn and run away, basically (and I realy hate to say this) if you get mean looks from your enemy you are probably going to blow up shortly after cause there is so much a pilot and his engineer can do to keep the Spire afloat. I just feel it's a bit to fragile for the speed it has.

For starters, at least if it's gonna keep being as fragile, I'd like to see it being more agile to support this weakness, or become a bit more survivable in the form of the hull requiring less strokes with a spanner to be rebuild, so you can tank a bit 'Squid Style'.

I have survived my fare share of difficult encounters with the Spire, but it was probably my enemy not being competent enough, I have abused Hydro, Vent, Tar and Kero to the max in order to achieve this and it's still not enough to keep us afloat sometimes.

Then again, I'm no game designer, so I might not be correct, but I still think the Spire right now is not where it should be.

Matadoring Pyra's all day is a hard job.

Offline Shinkurex

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #87 on: June 13, 2013, 08:57:13 am »
Matadoring Pyra's all day is a hard job.

This quote earned you a Salute :P... in all seriousness, the spire has always been the support ship. Without a teammate assisting by cutting off anybody looking at you funny, then you're gonna have a bad day. This is hard in a 2v2, but in 3v3 it's pretty easy to accomplish (I'm excluding Polaris and their dual spire shenanigans). I'm not saying that the spire shouldn't be buffed, but that it should still keep the spire in that supporting role

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #88 on: June 13, 2013, 09:01:37 am »
Perhaps if the Spire wasn't a damn spire it would be effective. I feel like if the ship were smaller or lacked the seemingly pointless rod going down then the ship's effectiveness would drastically increase. I always feel awkward when I kill a spire by ramming the meaningless and pointless spire of the spire. Surely it is not critical to the ship.

Doing that will give the ship some of that Junker hardiness from there being less hull to shoot as many of the shots will hit the components.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 09:03:40 am by Sammy B. T. »

Offline Parkourwalrus

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Re: SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2
« Reply #89 on: June 13, 2013, 12:28:29 pm »
Maybe the spire comes off when it takes heavy damage? The ships already change looks with damage, why not this? It would not help overall  survivability much, just keep it from being so easy to hit.