Author Topic: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!  (Read 22339 times)

Offline Atruejedi

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2016, 12:27:52 pm »
Well, we have 12 people online... nobody from Muse... so...

Offline Letus

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2016, 02:33:06 pm »


Heavy Flak has more damage moved to direct hit for a 70/30% split between direct and AoE (from 45/55%). Higher clip capacity to 4 (from 2) means damage per shot is reduced (115/50 explosive, from 150/180 explosive), BUT damage per second is the SAME due to increased RoF of 2 shots/s (from  0.8 ), and reduced reload time of 4.5s (from 5), reduced camera shake—to increase ease of use in both range (more damage in direct for within arming distance shots) and aiming (more shots to judge arc before reload)



...so..
What's the point of the arming time?

You might as well make the Lumberjack do 300 Flechette Direct and 50 Scatter AoE while we're doing this.

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2016, 02:38:43 pm »
Honestly I never saw the point of arming time.

Offline Letus

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2016, 03:04:09 pm »
Honestly I never saw the point of arming time.

When it came to the Lumberjack, it made sense...I was a huge fan of the Lumberjack before the arming time, and basically, you had a Carronade that could shoot across the map...or at point blank range...which...well, really replaced the Carronade.

Now, when it came to Heavy Flak, it kinda made sense...

But the problem now, the Flak still supposedly has its arming AoE, which does a meager 50 Explosive, the Direct does 115.
With a regular round, those four shots will do 644 perma hull damage
Buff vanilla would do 837 damage.

That's without the 50 AoE explosive
The AoE would add 280 perma hull a clip, which, yes, would be great...as that does a total of 852.

So
That will kill, with no problem:  Pyramidion and Junker

If we put in account of Burst rounds, that's 805 Damage, which is just about an Armed Vanilla time.  The Pyramidion and Junker are instantly doomed at point blank range of 1 Heavy Flak
Buffed Burst: 1046
That kills everything BUT the Galleon and Goldfish.

Lochnagar
523.25 permahull damage
Buffed: 680
(granted you'll get the AoE Damage, which adds 162 damage...for a grand wopping 685!  WOOO.  YOUR GUN IS BETTER WITH BURST)

Yeah you're not gonna Loch this gun

Charged
579 permahull
752 buffed

Greased
644
837

Just a solo, it seems that the obvious choice is the use burst rounds since it will do the most damage at any range because you don't have to wait for the AoE.

Double the damage when you have two Flacks on a Galleon.
In fact, the Double Flak Galleon was the reason why the call for an Arming Time happened after Lumberjack did, if you remember correctly.

Offline Lyoko Barbossa

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2016, 03:27:21 pm »
Honestly jedi, since the last major patch, I don't see the point. I read the notes from the past two weeks and have given my feedback, but the changes didn't reflect folks feedback then and they don't reflect them now. And it isn't just vet complaining there were common threads last time and this time which are being ignored. I cant help Muse achieve what they want to achieve if I don't know what it is. I suspect I'm not alone in this.

I will say this only once more. Did you really expect anything less from Muse?

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2016, 07:59:02 pm »
I was pondering things, and IF the gun angles had to be changed, I would go with something more like this.

20 to 30 degrees on outer guns rather than the current 35.



In devapp, the side guns are ALL 50 degrees. (35+15 and 45+5) That reduces the number of viable forward facing side guns to Artemis, flamethrower, and Banshee. Barking Dog is semi-viable. Completely removed from viability are flak, Gatling, and mortar (which was only semi-viable). In short, Mobula builds will be reduced to Hades/Merc/Gat main, Artemis/banshee wings. I was told this patch was intended to shake up the meta. All it is going to do is solidify it.

Sending this to feedback email as well.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 08:01:35 pm by Richard LeMoon »

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2016, 08:22:47 pm »
I'd rather do that but I'd prefer not to touch gun arcs because it doesn't balance and just changes builds. IF arcs were changed that's the best solution
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 08:29:31 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2016, 08:47:50 pm »
For visual reference, this is the current setup:


And the devapp testing changes:


Offline Mod Josie

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2016, 11:34:58 am »
Well, we have 12 people online... nobody from Muse... so...

Hi Jedi (and everyone)

I have to apologise for this one. I was asked to run the testing on Saturday because the usual team members were unavailable to take care of it. I wasn't drafted for the Sunday duty and I didn't check if I was still supposed to be supervising. As such, everyone thought that someone else was handling it and nobody from Muse showed. I ought to have checked, sorry about that.

That being said, we got some good feedback E-mails from both days, so thanks everyone for those!

Offline Erom Gary

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2016, 01:14:20 pm »


I'm just putting out my thoughts to the table about the arc changes of the mobula.

I can somewhat see the point here of why they've fanned out the arcs so wide out. I believe the idea here was to encourage captains to dedicate each wing to either specific range, disable power and kill power ect. With the front gun specialising on what one of the wings are dedicated to (as stated above ^^).

Although, you'll then only have two players firing at a single target simultaneously instead of three, which is problematic since it's killing the mobula's purpose of being a floating weapon platform. The only solution I can think of is to remove the ladder to the front gun and instead add stairs on both sides, similar to a galleon when running to helm. Which will allow one of the engineers to have easier access to front gun for a trifecta.

Indirectly from my perspective, this is a nerf. Although this can also be a remake to the ship's core playstyle, and show the new way of how to man and navigate a mobula.   

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2016, 02:46:10 pm »
It is just a more forward facing junker with less repair ability.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2016, 02:53:10 pm »
It is just a more forward facing junker with less repair ability.

It was always like that, being inherently weaker to piercing/explosive than junker. However, people overlooked this because it was also a junker that couldn't be disabled and could chase you around the map with long range.


Wing-playstyles already existed before, infact this is also a nerf to them because now it takes longer to turn a wing for it to be effective. At the same time, it's a buff to hades-art mobula because now it's much harder to get out of it's arcs by circling around it's wings, and if you just rush forward hoping to end up in the front gun arcs and avoid every other, then you still lose because range.this just limits a bunch of creative options for mobula, nothinjg more.

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2016, 06:56:58 pm »
Yeesss muse, fan out the mobula's front guns until it flattens so much it transforms into a junker :D

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2016, 07:48:05 pm »


A couple of ideas:
- Keep the dev-app changes but additionally rotate the top central gun maybe 30 degrees to one side, probably towards the hull side since balloon can be more easily ignored to run to a far gun in the short term.

- Remove the top central gun entirely and allow the side guns to point almost forwards, 20 and 30 degrees maybe

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: "When Ambush Comes to Shove" -Week 3 Possibly final testing?!
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2016, 08:43:22 pm »
I thought of those as well, but discarded them due to wonder what drugs the ship designers would have to be on to end up with those designs.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 08:46:31 pm by Richard LeMoon »