Author Topic: burst rounds change suggestion.  (Read 7123 times)

Offline Omniraptor

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burst rounds change suggestion.
« on: March 03, 2016, 12:11:16 pm »
burst rounds add a percentage to a gun's jitter, say +15%.

obviously this doesn't apply to a gun that doesn't have jitter in the first place. i think this change would assuage some of the complaints about hwacha, without breaking anything else too much. only other gun that is affected is the light flak, but i don't really know how bad that would be.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 12:13:32 pm by Omniraptor »

Offline Frostbound

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2016, 03:11:36 pm »
Or....

Muse could revert the hwatcha jitter buff they made a while back, TOTALLY UNNECESSARILY because of the heavy clip nerf. That's why burst hwatcha is so strong nowadays because they buffed hwatcha without heavy clip so now you can disable enemy ships with burst from 800 meters.

Burst is not a problem on any gun and has never been. All this change would do is make burst less viable on guns it's used once in a blue moon, like banshee and mortar.

Offline ZnC

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 05:58:13 pm »
Interesting suggestion Omni. I often read ideas which are overly complex or affect many other things in the game. But this is simple and well thought. The only other gun which has Burst as a core ammo type is the Artemis. Since the Artemis has no jitter, it does not affect it.

I really prefer the old Hwacha's jitter, but would love to keep Heavy Clip Hwacha usage. The problem with reverting is this: Hwacha jitter affects Heavy Clip, which affects Heavy Carronade. Revert everything and we're back to square one.

Offline GeoRmr

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2016, 06:00:33 pm »
Revert everything and we're back to square one.

I wouldn't mind this. I found this game a lot more FUN when you could snipe guns and engines using heavy clip heavy carronade.

Offline ZnC

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2016, 06:04:32 pm »
Revert everything and we're back to square one.

I wouldn't mind this. I found this game a lot more FUN when you could snipe guns and engines using heavy clip heavy carronade.

I totally agree with you, Geo. The Heavy Carronade was my favourite gun and I seriously loved it.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2016, 06:13:08 pm »
Being able to one shot heavy guns was overpowered. Heavy carro still deals 400 component damage per shot which is plenty, but jitter was increased by 1/3 or so which makes sniping less viable. Sniping components was too powerful and made hwatchafish impotent against blender. The shatter damage, down arc, and reload nerfs were necessary. Jitter and especially the up arc were not
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 06:17:00 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline ZnC

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2016, 06:22:50 pm »
There are plenty of arguments in favour of and against the H.Carro in past threads. Lets not turn this into that and keep the discussion on Omni's idea for Burst Rounds.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2016, 12:25:52 pm »
I don't think burst rounds needs to be changed because it's OP on one gun. It's an option but would have side effects. If it makes 10% of your light flak/mortar shots miss/hit balloon then that makes a difference. It would be more effective to just nerf the hwatcha

I think the hwatcha needs a nerf and heavy clip a buff - not a jitter buff. Reduce the clip reduction from 25 to 20% and perhaps add a +10% burst radius
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 12:36:54 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Dementio

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2016, 03:04:23 pm »
More jitter on burst rounds will also affect the Artemis. I don't mind reducing the effectivity of Artemis since it is a gun that appears on literally every long range ship that isn't a Galleon, one can still use other ammo types and at worst start the clip with one less shot than now. Neither do I mind reducing long range capabilities of the Hwacha with burst rounds, since that is ridiculous.

Mortar and Flak work well even without ammo types and are also viable with ammo types that are not burst, lesmok Mortar and heatsink Flak are my personal favourites for these guns, with burst not even being in second place.

I am in favor of this change.

Offline ZnC

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2016, 03:13:10 pm »
D, Artemis has 0 jitter. 0 +15% = 0.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2016, 03:34:20 pm »
Burst is the most potent ammo on the light flak. It deals the highest dpc and increases burst radius which means more damage on indirect hits. Lesmok is needed for longer range and heatsink to lower arm range, but burst is the best ammo for overall damage. I use all three ammos depending on the build (and charged as secondary ammo with highest dps)

Increased jitter might reduce the role of burst on the light flak. It wouldn't break anything but I don't think it's necessary. I wasn't under the impression that burst was an OP ammo in general - which is why you'd nerf it. If the problem is a specific gun then I figure it's best to address that specific gun
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 03:41:32 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline ZnC

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2016, 04:02:16 pm »
Also, to get back the Hwacha's original jitter, the percentage should be 50%.
Quote
- Hwacha
  -- Reduced jitter to 4 degrees (from 6)
  -- Developer Commentary: related to Heavy Clip change

4 degrees +50% = 6 degrees

Offline Dementio

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2016, 06:05:04 pm »
D, Artemis has 0 jitter. 0 +15% = 0.

But if it is added instead of multiplied, than it must be +15%. I am a pro at math-o-matics, so my logic is beyond flawless.

And the slower fire rate on Flak doesn't feel good. I don't want to give that ship the ability to tank the armor and it will take a second clip to kill some ships with the Light Flak anyway and heatsink for just in case, without rangefinder who knows when that gun is inside arming time or not and why would I be so close to the enemy and use a Light Flak at the same time, I don't know.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2016, 06:10:13 pm »
Adding 15% is multiplying by 1.15

Burst flak shoots slower but so does heatsink. Heatsink does -17% damage with two extra shots per clip. Heatsink empties in 2.8 seconds and burst in 2.9 so the difference isn't noticeable, but the damage is: 122 dps for burst and 116 for heatsink (regular is 118)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 06:27:16 pm by BlackenedPies »

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: burst rounds change suggestion.
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2016, 04:30:06 am »
What about changing the secondary effects of burst (+20% ammo, -15% rate of fire) to suit (some of) the other guns that benefit from from the +50% AOE that defines it.

Artemis, Banshee, Flamer, Hades and Minelauncher all benefit meaningfully from increased AOE.

Changing the secondary effects of burst to something with no net change to Hwacha damage would mean a choice between damage to hull/armor or increased disabling saturation. Currently burst just lets you have both without having to make any decisions.

Some options:

- +50% AOE only, no other effects

- Something like +15% damage, -15% clip size

- +50% AOE, +0.4m AOE , Making it something like incendiary ammo, giving an effect to guns that don't start with it.