Author Topic: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread  (Read 41462 times)

Offline Letus

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2016, 05:43:21 pm »
Another thought would be to give the range finder a different zoom...maybe..uhm...if I had good visuals I'd show what I'm getting at

Basically, we can make the Range Finder keep it's ability to track range on indicator on a spotted ship, but we give the Range Finder something to help visually measure distances of ships if they aren't spotted....

Like...let's say you're looking at a ship...and you zoom in until say...4x zoom...at that zoom, the ship mostly fills the viewfinder, which suggests maybe...1250m away, of course there would be like an indicator of what zoom you're in...

I know, horrible...making people think to use a tool, but if People can get on a lumberjack, look at a map to see a ship is about 1500m away, and know that that range is at about the 2.5 click (that's what I call it) or midway down the drop sight with lesmok...then people can learn that system..

Granted..you'd have to tell the differences of silhouettes, and how they look in each zoom to judge distance since each ship is obviously different...

I guess what I was trying to describe was the Coincidence Rangefinder




I can't really say much better, but those two images was what I was after.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 05:55:04 pm by Letus »

Offline OverlordEgg

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #76 on: March 08, 2016, 07:27:37 pm »
My only objection is it would honestly make the guns OP. Lumberjack and hades are already very powerful if the shooter gets the beat on a ship in that first or second shot. Being able to spam their first volley would honestly break balance imo. It sucks as it is going against the top tier gunners and even they usually miss their first shot.

If it still needs to be nerfed I'm open to ideas, but I currently don't think so. I see the current idea as balancing it's own use on two main aspects:

1. Tunnel Vision:
Keep in mind that just to use the range-finder is already sacrificing a pilot slot and tying up one crew member to its use. If it's given to an engineer, that's someone who isn't repairing or shooting, and if it's the pilot, that's someone who has sacrificed some of his maneuverability (one less pilot tool remember), and is zoomed in on one single ship, and focusing on relaying instructions, meaning he's paying less attention to the battle around him outside that ship. This alone means that with one person drawing fire it would make a teammate more potentially able to sneak up on them. I realize it doesn't guarantee it mind you, but it's a lot more to have to focus on while zoomed into a single ship and concentrating on adjusting a gunner's firing arcs. I may have to try flying with spyglass constantly zoomed in to test this. Potentially, we could even require a ship to be zoomed in on a certain amount, for example, make them take up 75% (arbitrary number, this could change) of the range-finder's view for the arcs to appear. This could also help facilitate communication between captains as well, since being zoomed in means the other pilot would have to warn you of incoming ships.

2. Delayed Reaction:
When you tell someone to do something (repair the engines, or open fire for instance) they're not going to immediately parse what you say and respond. Even the best players will still have a little delay, due to the time it takes for the server to relay the words coming through your mic to their speakers, and simple human reaction time. The delay between telling someone information and the gunner responding and correcting means it's not necessarily an immediate and surgical hit. You'll have to have some REALLY good communication skills to catch the faster ships like the squid, or even a medium speed ship that suddenly uses hydro, to the point where it would probably just be more reliable to let the gunner try aiming on their own because their reaction will be faster and you have to focus on maneuvering the ship to keep up. At this point the squid, in this instance, has closed inside your arming time and is killing you, and you're down a pilot tool because you brought the rangefinder. This leaves you even more vulnerable than sniping ships at close range usually are, and more reliant on your teammate, because you probably need him to bail you out.

Another smaller difficulty is the way the current shot indicators interact with clouds. The moment that line hits a cloud it stops right then and there, which would of course make using it for long distance sniping hard, and give opponents the chance to neutralize the rangefinder's effects by using clouds for cover.

I see where you're coming from. More lumber and hades hits = bad time. That's a valid concern, and that's the main reason why I nerfed my original idea into where it is now.

Offline PixelatedVolume

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #77 on: March 08, 2016, 08:12:42 pm »
Too kooky imo.  Not really fitting with the idea of a rangefinder.

Offline OverlordEgg

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2016, 08:19:55 pm »
Too kooky imo.  Not really fitting with the idea of a rangefinder.

What do you mean it doesn't fit the "idea of a rangefinder?" And what about the function itself? What if the tool had a different name?

Offline PixelatedVolume

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2016, 08:24:05 pm »
I meant to reply to the post suggesting some kind of captain-activated contrail-generating something or other... seems like discussion has moved on.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #80 on: March 09, 2016, 08:21:18 pm »
STEP ONE to a civil conversation about ideas: Ignore all of Jazzhand's posts.

STEP TWO: Post civil posts.


Anyways, I like the idea Egg had of letting the person, and only the person with the rangefinder see all the information, but I would make it be the highlighted arcs of all the guns as demonstrated in practice. This would be something I would actually use to train people. Everything else, not really.

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #81 on: March 09, 2016, 11:30:35 pm »
i'm actually not opposed to overlordegg's compromise ideas that only others can see the arc outlines. but i'm not all for it either, imo the arcs should not be complete, they should only give say the first 500 meters. and maybe extend that to 750 meters if there are two rangefinders being used..

Offline OverlordEgg

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #82 on: March 10, 2016, 12:27:38 am »
i'm actually not opposed to overlordegg's compromise ideas that only others can see the arc outlines. but i'm not all for it either, imo the arcs should not be complete, they should only give say the first 500 meters. and maybe extend that to 750 meters if there are two rangefinders being used..

That's an interesting thought, though the problem I see with it is that within 750 meters most people I give weapons like the lumberjack and hades to can already land most of their shots without help, especially if they're using lesmok ammo, and the person using the range-finder is zoomed in as well, meaning if their target is outside 750 meters they're probably not seeing anything at all. Then add that to the fact that the line already cuts off at clouds and that the gunner can't even see anything, plus the delays between saying information and response. I feel like with all the potential confusion that can get lost in translation between people, the person holding the rangefinder should be the one person who really knows what they're doing. I'm not completely against having a range cutoff, but as I see it now, to do that without defeating the purpose of the whole thing the distance would probably have to be so far that most guns would hit their max bullet range first anyway.

I also think allowing the rangefinder to show a bullet's path all the way to its max range would add be an interesting learning tool for pilots, allowing people to more efficiently dance around and position within their gun's ranges, and making the range finding part of the range finder more relevant. Another interesting thought is perhaps even allowing the rangefinder to show arming time somewhere along the prediction path. To me, this would be a really neat thing to have when piloting as a visual to put proper range in perspective up close, though I fear that might make it too powerful.

...but I would make it be the highlighted arcs of all the guns as demonstrated in practice. This would be something I would actually use to train people. Everything else, not really.

What do you mean by "the highlighted arcs of all the guns as demonstrated in practice?" If I'm understanding you right, that's exactly what I'm saying the rangefinder should do.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 12:31:40 am by OverlordEgg »

Offline PixelatedVolume

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #83 on: March 10, 2016, 07:42:28 am »
I really like the idea of rangefinder showing arcs.  As for the distance of projected arcs, maybe the more you zoom in the farther out the projections go?

This way you can either zoom way in and have very accurate predictions but poor awareness or stay zoomed out to watch the big picture but be somewhat less accurate with the projection.

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #84 on: March 10, 2016, 08:05:44 am »
I really like the idea of rangefinder showing arcs.  As for the distance of projected arcs, maybe the more you zoom in the farther out the projections go?

This way you can either zoom way in and have very accurate predictions but poor awareness or stay zoomed out to watch the big picture but be somewhat less accurate with the projection.

This is a nice touch.

I would also add that the HUD should disappear while using rangefinder. Further limiting situational awareness since this seems to be the balancing feature.

Offline PixelatedVolume

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #85 on: March 10, 2016, 01:32:08 pm »
This is a nice touch.

I would also add that the HUD should disappear while using rangefinder. Further limiting situational awareness since this seems to be the balancing feature.

GASP I was noticed!!!!

Definitely agree with that.  Maybe the compass and the hull health banner could stick around but i don't think you should see component damage indicators.  Or is that going too far?

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #86 on: March 10, 2016, 04:06:36 pm »
I did not consider the hull health and compass.

Those two should stay. I was only thinking about the component damage indicators going away.

Offline PixelatedVolume

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #87 on: March 10, 2016, 07:42:57 pm »
Well, I really like this idea.  Though I'm sure other people have lots of issues with it.

Or totally different ideas. 

Offline OverlordEgg

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #88 on: March 11, 2016, 01:39:03 pm »
I really like the idea of rangefinder showing arcs.  As for the distance of projected arcs, maybe the more you zoom in the farther out the projections go?

This way you can either zoom way in and have very accurate predictions but poor awareness or stay zoomed out to watch the big picture but be somewhat less accurate with the projection.

This is a nice touch.

I would also add that the HUD should disappear while using rangefinder. Further limiting situational awareness since this seems to be the balancing feature.

I originally posed potentially requiring someone to zoom in enough on a ship so that a % of the ship filled the view before they got to see arcs, but I think I like your ideas better.

Offline PixelatedVolume

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Re: The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread
« Reply #89 on: March 12, 2016, 04:08:44 pm »
Well it seems we're all in agreement -- how can we make this happen?