Author Topic: An SCS idea.  (Read 3928 times)

Offline Caprontos

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An SCS idea.
« on: November 11, 2015, 12:08:48 pm »
SCS goes through spouts of interest currently.. then dies off to where no one is really playing.. Be it due to real life issues or just not wanting to bother.. So an idea how to maybe add some more life to it...

What if you had some weeks where teams had to be mixed teams and no two teams could be the same mix.. IE Team Predators could mix with Clan Clan once, but you can't have two Team Predators + Clan Clan teams.. To promote more team mixes..

More points could be given to teams who's parts are further apart in the ranking + more for pairing with teams who didn't play in the scs at all.. If something fair could be decided..

Since each clan participating only needs 4 people per team, it should be easier to take part.. and less hassle..

Thoughts? For smaller or less interested in scs parties would this make you more likely to participate in these weeks?

-I assume this topic goes here-

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2015, 12:16:42 pm »
This was actually a discussion that lead to the concept of the timmyb tournament. The competitive scene has been gravitating towards single ship hybrid teams anyway. All parties would have to agree to it.. I like the idea. I'm not sure, if realistically, it can be implemented.

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2015, 01:09:15 pm »
I'd love this, but maybe not for the SCS. I think it would have to be a different event altogether

Offline Skrimskraw

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2015, 01:39:30 pm »
why would  a team/Clan signup for something if they cannot play together?

Why subject your own team to mixed teams if you can fill 2 boats yourself.

and more to the point

how hard is it for a team with 4 players to contact another team with 4 players and make a mixed team for scs.- I honestly dont get how hard this can be? a leader or organizer should be fully capable of putting Work into his own team, rather than having 8 player teams forced to split up into mixed teams.

also i dont see your point in how this would affect the current decline in event participation.

specially when the current belief is that the cause of this is:
the age of goio
the constant player retention after ever sale (this goes for most multiplayer games these days)
new teams believing that they can be competitive without giving an effort. - 8 players per team, they dont practice and they split up because they got 5-0'ed to a team that actually is a competitive team.

furthermore the amount of Work that the organizers have to put into this is immensely larger than anyone seem to believe. Any event organizer in goio knows how much time you have to put into this.
ranging from  organization to being in contact with various parties to making it run.
Just the notion of them also having to team different ships up with eachother and dealing with the blowback from people WHO dont like flying with eachother. - and if the teams themselves have to mix up, then good luck they Arent gonna bother trying to find someone to teamup with ;)

Thomas is currently working on something for mixed teams, i´d give that a go before changing scs into this.

Offline DrTentacles

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2015, 01:59:05 pm »
I don't think this is needed for SCS, but I think we're in dire need of a pinned "looking for comp partners" threat that is actively curated. I have little doubt that if I posted to try to find a ship to pair with GSR for a SCS I could. (My dreams of eventually getting a full GSR team beside), but it would be nice to have an official thread for that. I should probably go start one.

Ugh. If only Sunday was a good day for me to play.

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2015, 03:51:45 pm »
Guns of icarus has a miniscule community. Eight players is a lot for a competitive team to consistently play together. Most competitive games have teams of six or less.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2015, 03:54:44 pm »
I'm surprised there's no organized thread for pair up requests, you can make that right now if you wish considering you dont need any sort of authority to ask around for teams. The only problem I can see is that us forum geeks aren't the majority of current GOIO population and you'd need to reach out to people who are looking to form teams and make them aware that a forum exists for this game, be it advertising etc.

Offline DrTentacles

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2015, 04:04:54 pm »
Hopefully a function of the new launcher will be to advertise the competitive side of GOI.

Offline Skrimskraw

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2015, 05:39:51 pm »
I'm surprised there's no organized thread for pair up requests, you can make that right now if you wish considering you dont need any sort of authority to ask around for teams. The only problem I can see is that us forum geeks aren't the majority of current GOIO population and you'd need to reach out to people who are looking to form teams and make them aware that a forum exists for this game, be it advertising etc.

make one. have a mod sticky it and then its done ;) no need to burden scs with it.

Offline KitKatKitty

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2015, 05:50:47 pm »
I know Keyvias has been trying to or planning on adding information about competitive to the launcher. Thomas does have the Cronus league in the works which is for 4 player teams. Also, there are a few other ideas some players have been throwing around for smaller less intensive competitions/leagues. SCS just sort of shows a week to week issue with the small competitive scene. But I couldn't agree with Skrim more. Even with a thread that says "x" team has 4 players and looking to hook up with another 4 player team it comes down to team leads to make the effort to connect with those other teams and that can be done with or without a thread. I don't think the threads a bad idea but it's also something that has to be kept up...will a team make a post for each week they are available? Because if it goes without maintaince than you'll have a bunch of team names that may not be active 1 month from when they initially posted. As much as player retention, game balance issues, 5-0 matches are a problem so is the lack of work teams put into competitive.

Offline Caprontos

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2015, 10:21:55 pm »
While first I don't think it needs to be an EVERY scs thing, just sometimes thing.. As unlike normal tournaments the scs is consistent and one day..  Committing to a several week tournament  vs a one day event is a bit different..

Clearly there is still a need the SCS remains unchanged most of the time though. Would be silly to fully switch to this idea.

why would  a team/Clan signup for something if they cannot play together?

Why subject your own team to mixed teams if you can fill 2 boats yourself.

and more to the point

how hard is it for a team with 4 players to contact another team with 4 players and make a mixed team for scs.- I honestly dont get how hard this can be? a leader or organizer should be fully capable of putting Work into his own team, rather than having 8 player teams forced to split up into mixed teams.

To mix it up? but more to make it possible for more people to participate an have a -possibly- higher chance to actually win some.

It's less an issue that smaller teams could play its a more a matter if it would motivate them to play.


Quote
also i dont see your point in how this would affect the current decline in event participation.

specially when the current belief is that the cause of this is:
the age of goio
the constant player retention after ever sale (this goes for most multiplayer games these days)
new teams believing that they can be competitive without giving an effort. - 8 players per team, they dont practice and they split up because they got 5-0'ed to a team that actually is a competitive team.

It may not help at all, but the current isn't really doing it any better right? Its more an issue if there are teams interested but unable to or unwilling to play because whats the point to lose twice?


Quote
furthermore the amount of Work that the organizers have to put into this is immensely larger than anyone seem to believe. Any event organizer in goio knows how much time you have to put into this.
ranging from  organization to being in contact with various parties to making it run.
Just the notion of them also having to team different ships up with eachother and dealing with the blowback from people WHO dont like flying with eachother. - and if the teams themselves have to mix up, then good luck they Arent gonna bother trying to find someone to teamup with ;)

Thomas is currently working on something for mixed teams, i´d give that a go before changing scs into this.

While its possible that more people wouldn't be interested at all - the opportunity isn't really given currently. But it would have to be on the individual teams not organizers..

I don't think - again a full tournament is the same as a one off event... As there is only a single day time commitment vs several weeks.  So that's beside the point.

I don't deny it may be a pointless effort, which is why I'd be more interested in smaller or less consistent teams thoughts then our teams who can play practically every event with out much issue. If it would make them willing to play/be able to play then it'd be worth it imo.. But if not then its not worth it.

Offline Skrimskraw

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2015, 10:16:48 am »
so what you are saying is that small teams need motivation to play, basicly handing out a handicap and making competitive casual?
I dont know how that would work since competitive is the opposite of casual.
honestly if you want to play on a team in competitive isn't that enough motivation?

your best bet is the stickied thread for clans to team up, but even then I'm almost 100% sure that no one will use it, since this is normally done through player on player interaction on steam.

Lets just face it, the competitive scene is slowly fading, and there are no competitive players who wants to get in on it.
All the veterans have burned out or are burning out at the moment, they wont come back and even if they do it wont be for long anyway.
They are still around sure, but they dont participate.
Making it all casual and helpful to new teams isn't the solution, but rather the death of competitive
Teams should be expected to give their best and practice hard to be able to compete and not just be handed a handicap where they can feel secure and have fun in a casual enviroment.

I'm not saying that your suggestion will not work, maybe it will attract new teams and players to try it out, but it would effectively be the death of competitive, due to the lack of actual competitive spirit.

the playersbase isn't big enough to divide into skilled and unskilled, thats the main problem. You could easily have some event that allowed random players to play an scs like event and let that be the kickstart for them to enter competitive play, by either joining or creating a team.
For this to work you would need the following: organizers, streamers, casters and most of all players.
goio supports around 150 online on average during the day, could you inform them all about this and make them participate? I don't believe because nothing have worked since day one of goio's release.
Competitive have always been scheduled through the forum, and new players do not use the forum. This is why no new players join competitive unless they are recruited ingame.

I can guarantee you, that if you put in effort to try and get new players/teams into competitive you will be wasting your time. If they want to compete they will seek it themselves like any other team has done.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2015, 10:53:27 am »


I can guarantee you, that if you put in effort to try and get new players/teams into competitive you will be wasting your time. If they want to compete they will seek it themselves like any other team has done.

To adress this, not everyone who thinks "I want to play competitively" also thinks "This game must have a dedicated forum", I dont know why they wouldnt but I wouldnt pass up any opportunity for extra and possibly dedicated participants, so for a start just advertising forums in the new Launcher-thingy would be enough.

Offline GurasOguras

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2015, 10:59:52 am »
You introduce this to SCS and I'm disbanding T.Pr. There will be nothing competitive left here.


Let's be honest forcing someone to pair up with teams they either hate to play with or have completely different playstyles will create a cascade effect of all teams leaving competitive, because it's not competitive anymore. Yes - Aerodrome 3 was not competitive. Same as TimmyB. There is no way to call it competitive if your team is bunch of ships randomly paired together and you already define in the lobby who's gonna win. That's what is called a pub match...

Offline DrTentacles

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Re: An SCS idea.
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2015, 12:36:32 pm »
That's pretty melodramatic, Guras.

TimmyB was clearly, obviously, plainly never meant to be competitive, but I'd argue Aerodrome.

Playing a game well is learning to how to adapt to whatever it tosses your way. There were changes to practice with people in Aerodrome, if you want to take them. And very, very few matches are defined in the lobby.

Look, you can "I don't like the new rules" but saying it's the death of competitive and that you'll disband is just silly. I don't like the idea, and I sure as hell would like more single-ship signups, because I've got enough people in my clan to crew one ship well, and really no desire to train more, or poach some from other clans. I still think it's unnecessary because there are a lot of half-clans lying around.

I do think SCS could use some outreach to new people--not just in Forums posts. In game advertisement, and maybe a thing where clans offered "mixed scrimmages" to clans looking to get in competitive, but who aren't yet ready to get into SCS.