Author Topic: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?  (Read 15416 times)

Offline Dev Bubbles

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2015, 04:54:04 pm »
Byron, I get you.  I actually know the Depth devs.  I just chatted with them recently.  Like, sigh, this is kinda hard to explain here, so yeah, a cafe sit down would be better for sure.  But I actually know how they are, and what constraints they face pretty decently.  Devs share knowledge and stories more than you think.  But yeah, everyone's different.  In all honestly, compared to devs I know, maybe we didn't do better, but we didn't do too badly either.  Argh, I sound like I'm making excuses again, so I'll stop.  With scope, budget, resources vs output, all I'm saying is that, I actually do know a bit of what I'm talking about and what I'm doing. That's about it.

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2015, 04:57:40 pm »
Bottom line, if you guys fix harpoon and add skywhale hunting as an Alliance game mode, all will be settled and the world will join hands in harmony. I'll leave it that. :)

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2015, 05:03:20 pm »
Do I feel lied to?

Nope.

In the previous game I worked on as a senior content writer (drafted from being a player and rising through the ranks), I was lied to. So, I know what it feels like to be lied to. This is not it.

There is a huge difference between intentional misleading and mistaken aspirations.

Offline Hunter.

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2015, 05:51:53 pm »
All I want is for Alliance to release so there are no more excuses for the skirmish mode content drought. I just want a clear answer of "we don't care anymore and are just trying to give small balance changes to keep it alive" or "now Alliance is out we are gonna switch back to skirmish focus". Either answer and I will keep playing till my community of friends who play dies.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2015, 06:20:35 pm »
Between Kickstarter, buying extra copies for my friends, and a few cosmetic purchases I have spend more on Guns of Icarus than I have on any other video game. Yet the dollar spent to hours of enjoyment ratio makes this game one of the best entertainment purchases I have ever made.

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2015, 06:21:19 pm »
I would like to inquire, for further explanation on how is matchmaker pointless, and how did it remove social elements. The statements puzzle me.
This game has a playerbase that is just too small for a matchmaker to work. The social element is about my personal experience. People used to socialize in lobbies, but now we are stuck in a matchmaking queue for 5+ minutes each game and rematches are rare, so you are forced to go back to the queue again.

Offline Mattilald Anguisad

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2015, 06:26:43 pm »
There is a pisece of wisdom about software development, I've learned some time ago. I forgot where, probably from The Trenches.

"Programmers can't estimate time, it will take them to program something. Whatever they say it will take them, multiply it by at least 2." - not exact words.

I believe this holds true for most of the producers that went to KS - I have personaly resigned to wait longer time. I wish there was a way to inform everyone about that.

Even Veterans of the industry, without a publisher to either give realistic dates or hold them to dealines failed to deliver on time.

Richard "Lord Brittish" Garriot: Shroud of the Avatar (1,919,275$/1,000,000$; Estimated delivery Oct 2014 - in alfa/beta for over a year at this point) - founder of and creator of most of Origin Systems games (including Ultima series)
Tim Schaefer: Double Fine Adventure/Broken Age (3,336,371$/400,000$; Estimated delivery Oct 2012 - act 1 delivered in Jan 2014, and after going over budget) - made many of the great Lucasarts adventure games
Chris Roberts: Star Citizen (total: >93,000,000$ out of ???; Estimated delivery Nov 2014  - beta for all pre-orders starting soon, current ETA 2016) - author of Wing Commander series and both Privateer games

... I could go on.

If allegations of over-micromanagement hold true, it means you either have wrong people, or you, Bubbles are (no mater how well intended) over-managing. It seems to be a bit of a common thread in some of the delayed KS campaigns.

Not saying that if they can be late that you can, but just trying to assert that software developers are terrible at estimating time needed.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2015, 09:16:18 pm »
Either you give estimates and possibly miss or be off a bit or you make hard dead lines and churn out a Battlefield 4....either way ends in gamer wrath. Heck after working on VN development for two+ years now I can safely say, things rarely go right. I even had a talk with Bubbles recently about managing artists and found a lot of similar things I've dealt with.

Most of the complaints stem from a lack of knowledge from the consumer and expecting AAA huge team quality from a small team studio. Coding doesn't just miraculously happen. Fixing code isn't always easy. You don't know how many things might be dependent on one line of code or may cause problems elsewhere. In VN dev we started with Renpy and I'm moving to Tyrano simply because to troubleshoot Renpy engine means you have to compile and test from the start where Tyrano you can test scenes in engine on the fly. The amount of time saved is huge. But not all game engines make that easy.

From what I've seen with GOIO, I think a good chunk of the problem is Unity related, not Muse. Had other game engines been as open to develop for as Unity was when GOIO was made...maybe...maybe we might be better off right now. UE engine alone would have been great since it would have made user modding and content creation much easier. But it wasn't as open to dev on.

Then next Artists are some of the most problematic folk to ever work with. You don't always have the luxury to just simply have them on staff. If you have to commission them, they might tell you one estimate of time frame but end up taking double the time. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of the delays Muse has is due to artist problems. That is literally what is holding back the Guns VN production atm...artist problems. We went into May/June ready to start production and summer hit, artists MIA.

From talking to Bubbles I get the same feeling I get when I've worked with VN dev. You don't really know how hard it is to churn these things out till you see it first hand.

Offline Richard LeMoon

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2015, 10:47:59 pm »
As a person that has seen first hand, I agree.

Offline -Anakin-

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2015, 08:53:03 am »

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Offline The Mann

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Offline MightyKeb

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Offline -Anakin-

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2015, 10:46:16 am »
Depth map set in water hazard with rock pinnacles everywhere and a crashed airship underwater <3

Offline Dev Bubbles

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Re: Any other longtime supporters feel like they were lied to?
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2015, 11:17:28 am »
I actually know the Depth devs.

Depth/goio crossover content pls, chivalry style?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=391159354&searchtext

Oh we talked about that actually.  Would be really cool, but it takes a bit of work and logistics to make that happen for either of us.  I do want to start doing more of this with other devs though.  It's cool.