Author Topic: Why should the many punish the few?  (Read 4220 times)

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2015, 09:55:24 am »
Mallet-Spanner masterrace

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2015, 03:24:23 pm »
I don't like 3v3's and set my server preferences to 2v2 after I got dumped into several 3v3's last night. The unknown value of 2 other captains and crew makes it harder for my individual skill to carry a match. Also my old computer lags a bit when there are more ships in play.

I can see how non rematch steps of the older lobby dynamic of ship shuffle. However, so long as we return to crew form as a ship and not a team it basically functions as a game wide shuffle. The worst thing from the previous patch was getting shuffled in with a low performing ally, then getting dumped into crew form with them after a bad match. Being forced to play 2 games in a row with Leroy Jenkins as my back up and having to sit though a long match making search was awful.

Offline Caprontos

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2015, 07:30:30 pm »
Mallet-Spanner masterrace

Yes.

Anyways... I thought of this awhile ago, did I post it? I have no idea..

What if they added a level.. say... 35 + match option.. and it works like novice.... but less rushy.

So MM will let you sit in queue and wait - as long as you want for a full game of level 35+ players.. and tell you how many it has waiting.., so you can decide if you want to stop waiting or not.. (since you probably have some patience if your using this right?).. This way people over level 35 (in any class) can opt to not play with brand new people.. Just like brand new people can opt to "play" in normal matches.

Call it "non-novice lobby".

I'd like to see it just to see how many people actually opted to use it..

I am sure this would still create many stacked lobbies.. but at lest they look less stacked right?..

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2015, 08:59:25 pm »
Mallet-Spanner masterrace
dems fitin' werds.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2015, 01:09:41 am »
Cause 35+ are still uncommon levels. It would be only populated during peak hours.

More segregation won't solve it, heck the segregation we have right now doesn't do anything. Still have novice players in regular lobbies all the time.

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2015, 08:22:53 am »
Mallet-Spanner masterrace
dems fitin' werds.

No,

Chem-Buff-Ext masterrace

Is fightin' words.

ANYWAY

All of our problems will be solved with one simple thing; Playerbase.  More players means less wait times, and if the vast majority stick around, a flood of noobs that will, in time, become badasses.

Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2015, 08:59:38 am »
Or how it so often happens in GOIO...Teach a noob to fish, he'll throw a fit about him knowing how it do it, not needing you. Then later after you catch a giant fish while he catches a boot, he slaps you with a lawsuit claiming your an elitist jerk and that all the veterans are jerks who never help others. Then they become a movement picketing your local gov and claiming themselves to be an oppressed group while they use it to throw naked sex parties to attract more people to their cause who really don't care but for some reason feel moved to support the underdog because they make themselves out to be the underdog that is being repressed by the big elitist jerk veteran company....

NEWSFLASH! VETS ARE THE MINORITY IN THIS GAME!!! WHERES OUR PARADE MUSE!!! WHERES OUR PARADE!!!

Heh heh :D

Gilder, I think I'm in love with you, #nohomo
I'll print it and hang over my bed.

I really don't get it, is the new generation (that must sound funny from an almost-21-year-old guy) so fucked up? I mean, my favourite games of all time (Europa Universalis, Counter Strike: Global Offensive, now Terraria shining up) have very little of tutorial and 90% of your knowledge and skill come from your own persistance and guides you found. You 'git gud' and then you are satisfied, you rose because you practiced and this is a very good feeling. Of course not everyone has to like it, but this is a moment when you say "Okay, this game isn't for me, have fun guys" instead of "OMFG FIX THE GAME, ALL GUNS ARE OP, IT TAKES ONLY 5 SECONDS TO KILL A SHIP" *. Also, when a guy who played like a 1000 or more hours gives me some advice the first impression should be "Oh, thanks man. Sorry, just starting to learn here" instead of "Fuck off". I truly don't understand how the hell that happens. Perhaps GOIO community is too delicate with such people.

*actual quotes from Steam forum


I have an impression that the only advice I can give is "do it polish way". In Poland when there's a bad road, full of holes, in bad shape, the best way to solve that problem is to buy a better, bigger car.
You've got problem with noobs? Stay with your clan, play only during peak hours and make password-locked lobbies for your clan and friends.

All of our problems will be solved with one simple thing; Playerbase.  More players means less wait times, and if the vast majority stick around, a flood of noobs that will, in time, become badasses.

Well, yes and no. The problem is - how to gain solid, stable playerbase? Because statistics of previous sales show us that playerbase is not growing. It merely stays around the same, all sale peak fade away after few months.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 09:04:40 am by Mr.Disaster »

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2015, 03:57:58 pm »
I'm hopeful we'll see an increase in playerbase after this one. GOIO just doesn't get the attention it should get but recent patches have given more individuals chances to shine. It is a group game but the has been clear limits on how good a gunner or engineer could be. Pilots too. That is something FPS games don't have. The limits in FPS games come entirely down to speed and skill. GOIO now has a form of that but it is a bit more tactical in nature. The trick is, if new players see it. If they hang around long enough to see it, they might be moved to stay longer. Hopefully the streamers have been presenting it to them.

Oh the problem with the generation is clear Disaster. This is the gen that grew up under the "everyones a winner" mentality. I've caught numerous articles within the last year stating that was a mistake. That kids need to know the value of defeat. Heck I played in Bantam level hockey for a couple years and we got prizes no matter what place we got. First thing I did was look at the 4th place trophy and go...what the? Why is the rink wasting money on giving prizes to losers? But this is that mentality. Stroke the egos of kids. Don't let them feel like losers. Then they become the gen we have now. Angry little brats who swat people when they lose.

Sigh...I tell ya, the best hockey game I ever played in was one where we lost. That was because we were shorthanded players, only had really one line + goalie to put out. All against the top team in our league who just thought they were going to have an easy win. We were tired, wiped out, but we held them till the end. Only lost in the last 10 sec. Final was 11-10. It was an insane high scoring game but we just weren't going to give them an easy win and it took them till about mid game to start shaking that ego. In the end, we got a standing ovation from the other team and from their fans in the stands. That is how you lose. That is what kids need to feel.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2015, 10:19:38 pm »
Coming from the 90s I came from an era where 2nd place meant second best.
You played to win, and if you weren't good enough. You work your ass off to not make it a repeat.

You don't just skill-up and get good. You play the meta game and know who you play against. Any competition is as much as a mind game as it is a besting of each others feats.

Because you aren't playing to buttheads and see who wins. You're playing to win at a level your opponent can't keep up.


So you let your opponent get high combo at the start of a rhythm game. You give up? No. The high combo doesn't matter.

Because by the magic of scoring systems, if you screw up a high combo vs racking up tiny combos and then building up a big one towards the end.

You win against the guy who was supposed to be better than you. Because sure that high combo guy made no mistakes most of the way. But the scoring system reaches a soft cap on score bonus after x amount of combos.





You let the guy think he's winning. But in reality he's actually losing. Let them think they're winning until its too late.


Giving up is for scrubs.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 10:22:42 pm by Maximillian Jazzhand »

Offline Sarabelle Marlowe

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2015, 06:48:45 am »
I agree that this whole not being punished for losing is, to be polite, bothersome.

When I was learning how to play chess, my grandfather did not let me win. Nor my father. I lost over and over again. I learned from my mistakes because there was a real reward in winning. And when I did win, I knew it wasn't because it was handed to me, it was because I earned it.

Now, on the other hand, had my father and grandfather yell at me to get better or mocked me for my mistakes, I would feel the game wasn't worth the stress and quit (as many do with many games, after all, is a fictional universe that is meant to be fun worth stress and rage? Why play a game if it's not fun?). But they were encouraging and took time help me learn. This gave much more satisfying games as a result. We still play chess, and in turn I taught my siblings.

But on the other other hand, that was because I wanted to learn and willing to take time to do so. Had I thrown a fit, they wouldn't help me learn because the situation wouldn't warrant the stress.

Trouble is there isn't a clear right-wrong-no-exceptions answer. While I have met some very polite and eager to learn players, there are of course those that are less so. Should those that are willing to learn be punished because others are obnoxious? Should members have to constantly deal with unskilled and unwilling to learn players for the sake of those that are not? Is it even worth it?

As was pointed out, a bigger player base would solve many of the issues, but only if players actually stick around. All of this is pretty accurate.

I've stressed it before, and stress it again. We need, not just want, but NEED Co-op. Pretty please with Loch on top.

Offline ShadedExalt

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2015, 10:05:36 am »
PS4 release, too

Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2015, 11:00:57 am »
PS4 release, too

I'm really scared of this. I have an impression that it will be 1.3.8 all over again.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2015, 11:09:23 am »
I must fortify my clan for this.

Many achieves will be had from this.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2015, 04:58:39 pm »
Already talked about the PS4 release in other threads. Simple put, the biggest concern Muse should have is the animosity between console players and those of the glorious PC Master Race. Its going to happen. Frankly for good reason. Because pads cannot handle as well as mouse in FPS games. Then with a communication heavy game like this, its going to be another issue.

I'd say we just avoid the holiday rush and up front consider GOIO console players as mere cattle to feed PC players.

However, I am generally for the idea of PS4. Gives GOIO better exposure and I'm hopeful that someday it would eventually lead to Vita support. But yeah, Muse will need something in place to keep console and PC players from literally killing each other.

Offline David Dire

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2015, 05:04:20 pm »
Already talked about the PS4 release in other threads. Simple put, the biggest concern Muse should have is the animosity between console players and those of the glorious PC Master Race. Its going to happen. Frankly for good reason. Because pads cannot handle as well as mouse in FPS games. Then with a communication heavy game like this, its going to be another issue.

I'd say we just avoid the holiday rush and up front consider GOIO console players as mere cattle to feed PC players.

However, I am generally for the idea of PS4. Gives GOIO better exposure and I'm hopeful that someday it would eventually lead to Vita support. But yeah, Muse will need something in place to keep console and PC players from literally killing each other.

Basically the only way to balance controller vs keyboard and mouse is to heavily mod the controller.

Hey, if they chose Console in the first place, that's their fault.