Author Topic: Why should the many punish the few?  (Read 4240 times)

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2015, 01:11:15 am »
Salute Noir!

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2015, 04:29:53 am »
the intent of people being sent to match making is so people are thrown into the mix as easily manageable resources to send where MM sees fit.

It can't do that if most players arent on there.

Hence its "faster" (on paper) and "fairer" to just let MM find/make a new lobby and properly "balance" the game lobbies.




However it steps on the toes of the intent of its older versions and solutions. Like team scramble. Basically... less control for players because the game needs to be made idiot proof for the anticipation of an increase in stupid people.

Offline Lieutenant Noir

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2015, 05:29:02 am »
Hmm... if that's how the matchmaker works.

The only thing I could really think as a compensation would be for the previously mentioned choices to only take place at a lower player base (when the matchmaker has less players to work with and is much less effective in balancing matches).
However the problem still lies in that we have to work with Steam Sale players who aren't the most cooperative or bright.

That being said people still leave lobbies in mass. If some players find that the other team is stacked they go back into the matchmaker, sometimes only to be brought back to the same lobby. However the matchmaker would still have too little players to work with.....

I would still rather have the option of individual choice

Players who want to find a game quicker by staying in a lobby "can".
While new players who aren't that alert about how the crew formations system works will not have to be responsible for the entire team being sent to the match maker.
It would allow newer players to have the matchmaker balance the matches for them, and we get enough of them through the steam sales for the matchmaker to work with Kinda.

You'll be forced more into a shell of a lobby but I think it's a compromise I can vouch for, I'll have way more conversations about what everyone is eating or how to properly dress a bleeding finger ;(
In the end you'll still be tricking new players but they would not have to drag us down with them. :P

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2015, 05:36:53 am »
Can solve a lot if they just dump MMR and let the system instantly shaft people into lobbies immediately. Then you have little to no wait queue except if there is a pilot shortage. Literally an idea that was proposed but not considered, although maybe they did. Muse never mentioned it. But it was simply to bring back the quick join but just make it smarter so ships wouldn't get 3 gunners. That was the implied definition of matchmaking before MM happened.

Instead we got this thanks to all the stacked match QQing. Victims of our own success. What do we have to do? Make unlimited alt accounts just so we can get frequent matches? Either way the system punishes vet players. Byron's observations attest to that.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2015, 08:01:32 am »
Can solve a lot if they just dump MMR and let the system instantly shaft people into lobbies immediately. Then you have little to no wait queue except if there is a pilot shortage. Literally an idea that was proposed but not considered, although maybe they did. Muse never mentioned it. But it was simply to bring back the quick join but just make it smarter so ships wouldn't get 3 gunners. That was the implied definition of matchmaking before MM happened.

Instead we got this thanks to all the stacked match QQing. Victims of our own success. What do we have to do? Make unlimited alt accounts just so we can get frequent matches? Either way the system punishes vet players. Byron's observations attest to that.

it did that in the 1st update of MM. It was terribad. Stackings galour, as ppl certainly got those matches fast as they wished (not me), but stacking was near consistent.

Offline David Dire

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2015, 12:22:38 pm »
The solution: Matches+Level based MMR.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2015, 07:11:18 pm »
Level honestly makes a bit more sense. For a long time I've noticed a trend in the Win/Loss and K/D ratios. Course we can't anymore since Muse...removed those stats!! *Shakes fist*

It was pretty clear over the years how stats would improve with experience and level. You just didn't run into high levels that couldn't fly worth crap. There was no way to power level to allow that. This method Muse has of, lets make a level system but lets do everything we can so that newbies don't think the match is hopeless when they see high levels, doesn't work.

Why don't we just dump levels entirely? Well that won't work because people like a sense of accomplishment. Levels give that. It's no coincidence that MMOs often make new level ups as flashy as possible cause it then tickles the ego of the player who knows they just became stronger.

So Muse wants a leveling system which emphasizes a higher level being "stronger" than a lower, yet does everything they can to make the lower level be at the same level of the higher so that the lower level doesn't feel bad about getting meat grinded by the higher. Can we just have ranked/unranked play? Or normal/hardcore mode play? Solve this argument right away. Oh but no it won't because then we won't have the community to be able to fuel it! I'd be back at square one sitting in ranked/hardcore mode waiting for matches.

However, if there was a leaderboard/etc. Those modes might get people on more. It would be a sense of endgame. Hence you'd have people working towards it. To get on the top 10-20 in the game/etc. Trouble is that opens a whole new can of worms. People would cheat or they'd pad wins. But that is a given in PVP games, which is what this game is. Till COOP mode comes out, this game is PVP to the core. Its just lacking a lot of the PVP systems which other games use to build massive playerbases. Why? Because Muse wants to make sure Goldfish for Brains powder monkey doesn't feel like they are a completely useless sack of turd. Its not about learning or getting better, its about giving them fish instead of giving them a pole and a hook.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 07:14:44 pm by Gilder Unfettered »

Offline Koali

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2015, 07:47:54 pm »
Can they give us bait, too, so we can attract the fish?

I'm so sorry, but I just HAD to say it!

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2015, 08:00:30 pm »
Correction, they have the pole and a hook, they just can't figure out how to use it. Which should not be Muse's responsibility. Just deliver the game, don't handhold everyone through it.

Offline Koali

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2015, 08:05:52 pm »
"Give a noob a fish, and he'll ask for more. Teach a noob to fish, and he'll no longer be a noob."

Also, I found one that goes "give a man some fire and he'll be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life," for all those Cakes.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2015, 08:36:18 pm »
"Give a noob a fish, and he'll ask for more. Teach a noob to fish, and he'll no longer be a noob."

Also, I found one that goes "give a man some fire and he'll be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life," for all those Cakes.

Correction teach a noob to fish and you slap him with the boot he caught.

Offline Koali

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2015, 08:52:43 pm »
^Ceres knows what's up.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2015, 01:52:55 am »
Or how it so often happens in GOIO...Teach a noob to fish, he'll throw a fit about him knowing how it do it, not needing you. Then later after you catch a giant fish while he catches a boot, he slaps you with a lawsuit claiming your an elitist jerk and that all the veterans are jerks who never help others. Then they become a movement picketing your local gov and claiming themselves to be an oppressed group while they use it to throw naked sex parties to attract more people to their cause who really don't care but for some reason feel moved to support the underdog because they make themselves out to be the underdog that is being repressed by the big elitist jerk veteran company....

NEWSFLASH! VETS ARE THE MINORITY IN THIS GAME!!! WHERES OUR PARADE MUSE!!! WHERES OUR PARADE!!!

Heh heh :D

Offline David Dire

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2015, 02:03:24 am »
Or how it so often happens in GOIO...Teach a noob to fish, he'll throw a fit about him knowing how it do it, not needing you. Then later after you catch a giant fish while he catches a boot, he slaps you with a lawsuit claiming your an elitist jerk and that all the veterans are jerks who never help others. Then they become a movement picketing your local gov and claiming themselves to be an oppressed group while they use it to throw naked sex parties to attract more people to their cause who really don't care but for some reason feel moved to support the underdog because they make themselves out to be the underdog that is being repressed by the big elitist jerk veteran company....

NEWSFLASH! VETS ARE THE MINORITY IN THIS GAME!!! WHERES OUR PARADE MUSE!!! WHERES OUR PARADE!!!

Heh heh :D
Besides that other half, it's basically GoIO now.

Offline Koali

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Re: Why should the many punish the few?
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2015, 09:27:00 am »
And then there's those guys who have Mallet-Spanner loadouts... :P

And there's the ones that rebuild with Mallet and repair with Spanner.

DID THEY NOT PLAY THE TUTORIAL OR WHAT I MEAN !@#$% MAN IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK OR SOMETHING