Heavy Clip Heavy Carronade

[DJ Logicalia]

I still like reducing balloon health and the flechette modifiers on balloons by the same amount. That way, the balloon is easier to rebuild and takes the same amount of time to destroy

[BlackenedPies]

I still like reducing balloon health and the flechette modifiers on balloons by the same amount. That way, the balloon is easier to rebuild and takes the same amount of time to destroy

That has always been my favorite option but I'm skeptical that any major changes will happen.

Also, heavyclip exceptions for carronade are quite a dumb solution in my opinion. If you have to make exception for certain weapons you already know something is stupid in the weapon itself, and you're just trying to find a way around it. If you do it, might as well do it right and change the weapon itself.

Thanks for the excellent calculations as always, I figured it wouldn't make much difference on the carro and more so on other guns.

Heavy clip heavy carronade is broken but there isn't enough impetus for change. I think that the gun itself needs a fix but I figured adding the missing penalty to the only necessary ammo would be more likely to be adopted.

[Richard LeMoon]

I should have mentioned removing some or all of the shot reduction as well as the 95%. That would give back to Hwatcha and make it more viable on other guns, with no added benefit to heavy carro.

I also have supported reduced balloon health (as well as ship specific HP like armor and hull) and reducing all modifiers to match. Currently, damage vs balloon is:

Balloon health: 1200

Damage type	Modifier towards Balloon
Flechette	1.8
Impact	1.8
Fire	1.5
Explosive	0.25
Shatter	0.2
Piercing	0.2

If the balloon had 75% current heath, the modifiers could be as follows.

Balloon Health: 900

Damage type	Modifier towards Balloon
Flechette	1.35
Impact	1.35
Fire	1.125
Explosive	0.19*
Shatter	0.15
Piercing	0.15

*rounded up from .1875


*edit* OR, since the repair calculations are different for each part type, reduce the Part Type Multipliers for the tools.

[MidnightWonko]

What if Heavy Clip, instead of reducing clip size, reduced range by a flat amount?  This would make it a greater drawback on short-range weapons like the carronades and not as great on the hwacha.  -100 would be a decrease of less than 10% on a hwacha, but would reduce the Hellhound's range by nearly 25% (just as an example).

[BlackenedPies]

What if Heavy Clip, instead of reducing clip size, reduced range by a flat amount?  This would make it a greater drawback on short-range weapons like the carronades and not as great on the hwacha.  -100 would be a decrease of less than 10% on a hwacha, but would reduce the Hellhound's range by nearly 25% (just as an example).

Reducing range would have the biggest effect on the gat. Heavy clip gat is used for increasing effectiveness at long range.

[Sammy B. T.]

Heavy and Lesmok are the two long range ammo types, just from different ends. Lesmok literally increases range while heavy increases accuracy which indirectly increases effective range.

[Extirminator]

- Carronade arcs reduced slightly
- Heavy Carronade range reduced slightly
- Heavy Clip now reduces recoil by 95% (was 100%)

After I ran some calculations it doesn't seem like any change to the way heavy clip jitter reduction works will do the trick. I mean, it might do the trick but it will ruin other weapons that use it.

95% reduced jitter will mean a maximum jitter angle of 0.2 degrees on the heavy carronade when applied heavy -  giving you a maximum spread of 1.5m at maximum range. due to the way that aoe secondary damage type works, and decreases linearly after the point of half the radius, at maximum range, with extreme end cases, you will be doing 86.7% of the damage on average at the center point of impact - which is still able to one shot destroy a heavy gun.

In addition to the still quite devastating damage, the carronade's heavy gun kill radius will be be increased from 2m to about 2.6m on average(so it actually makes it better).

(I am intentionally not talking about balloon killing and only the component destroying - more commonly heavy weapon destroying because only the aoe damage of the carronade, the shatter damage will get affected. Due to a spread at maximum range of 1.5m, any balloon will still be fully vulnerable to it, with slight exceptions with the pyramidion's balloon in various angles, that might cause some armor hits.)

Now for this change to be actually effective in the sense of taking away the carronade's extreme ability to snipe guns and or balloons with heavy clip, one will be forced to decrease jitter by 70-80%.
Right now with the proposed 95%, not only that it doesn't do the trick, it is already starting to ruin the hwacha with heavyclip - you will have 6.25m of spread at maximum range, and with only 7m of aoe radius and the way aoe damage behaves, you are starting to lose quite a bit of damage. Decreasing the spread even more is simply not an option because it will ruin everything that uses heavyclip. Concentrate on the carronade, it is the problem, not the ammo type.

Also, heavyclip exceptions for carronade are quite a dumb solution in my opinion. If you have to make exception for certain weapons you already know something is stupid in the weapon itself, and you're just trying to find a way around it. If you do it, might as well do it right and change the weapon itself.

lol at 95%.

Slighty reduced arcs mean 20 up and 10 down from 30 up and 15 down.

Range from 425 to 375.

What happend to the whole balloon damage modifiers solution?

[Dementio]

What happend to the whole balloon damage modifiers solution?

It was probably too much of a reasonable solution.

[David Dire]

What happend to the whole balloon damage modifiers solution?

It was probably too much of a reasonable solution.

Better nerf Dementio for doubting our too powerful nerfing techniques.

[Richard LeMoon]

stuff

more stuff

random stuff

What happens in devapp, stays in devapp. Wrong forum and thread.

[Extirminator]

stuff

more stuff

random stuff

What happens in devapp, stays in devapp. Wrong forum and thread.

Sorry I thought it was kinda fitting to put in muse's solution to whatever has been discussed in this thread for 2 pages now.

[BlackenedPies]

Sorry I thought it was kinda fitting to put in muse's solution to whatever has been discussed in this thread for 2 pages now.

Agreed.

[Richard LeMoon]

(Stat changes may be tweaked slightly more today, but this is what's up at the moment of this writing.)

No, it is not fitting. It is a bit of a tantrum and lashing out, not productive feedback. [exaggeration] "OMG this is what Muse is doing NOW in devapp! *rage*"[/exaggeration] is not appropriate or helpful in or out of the proper forum, but especially out.



Also, these changes likely came from emails sent to them, not this thread. I know the test changes I suggested in emails are being tested now.

[Arturo Sanchez]

I still like reducing balloon health and the flechette modifiers on balloons by the same amount. That way, the balloon is easier to rebuild and takes the same amount of time to destroy

doing this will result in heavyclip light carronade being OP too. Then you'd have to nerf that as well.

Then lumberjack is sure to follow.

If you said all 3 in the first place I would have taken this idea much more seriously, as it showed you actually gave proper thought about it.

[Sammy B. T.]

Since the next patch is not terribly close, most of what in dev ap is stuff being tested, not necessarily eminent changes. Therefore a healthy degree of seperation between actual testers and people theory crafting is healthy.