Extinguisher Buff

[BlackenedPies]

The extinguisher is the default tool but is incapable of dealing with flamethrowers and general repairs regardless of skill. To alleviate this problem Muse should change the extinguisher based on community recommendations.

To make the extinguisher useful (but still inferior) either the cooldown or immunity time could be changed. Two suggestions are remove the cooldown or increase immunity to 5-8 seconds. We need a simple, balanced, and agreed upon solution in order for there to be any likelihood of change.

[Hilary Briss]

Have to agree on this.

Either; remove the cooldown or increase immunity to 5-8 seconds.

Both would make the tool more user-friendly. Right now it is and has always been the poor cousin to chemspray and it should not be so.

[DJ Logicalia]

I quite like the idea of removing the cooldown. I think that would be a great buff. If, however, we were to make it equally viable yo chem, I think the best change would be to allow ext to be used during cooldowns

[SirNotlag]

Yeah people have been suggesting this for awhile now (Maybe a full year). my personal idea would be to reduce cooldown to 2 seconds and immunity up to 4 seconds that way it allows you to nurse one component if your continually getting hit by flames and just allows you to clear all the fire out and get everything working again a little faster.

[SirNotlag]

I quite like the idea of removing the cooldown. I think that would be a great buff. If, however, we were to make it equally viable yo chem, I think the best change would be to allow ext to be used during cooldowns

I dont like the idea of that at all it gives it too much fire clear power and would just override chemspray cause you would be able to clear fire and repair faster than it could accumulate and deal damage. 2 engineers working together can cover all components in like 3 seconds sure repairing would slow them down abit but that just doent give fire enough time to deal any damage that wouldn't just be repaired.

[BlackenedPies]

I think that chem should remain superior to the extinguisher but with more skill required.

Using during cooldowns could be a fix, but I foresee problems. It may be confusing for players who aren't used to using a tool on cooldown and tanking would involve spamming.

Spamming is a reason why I don't like removing cooldown altogether. 1 second cooldown with moderate immunity (4-6 sec) sounds balanced to me.

[SirNotlag]

I think that chem should remain superior to the extinguisher but with more skill required.

Using during cooldowns could be a fix, but I foresee problems. It may be confusing for players who aren't used to using a tool on cooldown and tanking would involve extinguisher spamming.

Spamming is a reason why I don't like removing cooldown altogether. 1 second cooldown with moderate immunity (4-6 sec) sounds balanced to me.

I could not agree more

[Caprontos]

Not entirely serious about this reply but...

Just make fire extinguisher a default tool everyone has (like normal ammo).. and remove its fire immunity..

Yay fire extinguisher is now useful... and fire is even easier to handle..

[BlackenedPies]

To clarify my position:

No cooldown or use during cooldowns could be confusing and involve spamming.

I think added immunity is the best solution with 5 being on the low side and 10 on the high side.

[Indreams]

Not entirely serious about this reply but...

Just make fire extinguisher a default tool everyone has (like normal ammo).. and remove its fire immunity..

Yay fire extinguisher is now useful... and fire is even easier to handle..

eh... not a bad suggestion, but ... that'd increase my tool belt to spyglass-extinguisher-spanner-mallet-buff. I don't like pressing '5' in games if I can help it. I almost never (except back in Diablo II) bind things '6'+.


I'm with 'let use extinguisher during cool downs'. So mallet-extinguisher can fight fire almost as well as veteran engineers.

[MightyKeb]

I'm for 1 sec cooldown and 5-6 seconds of fire immunity,I find that one of the more interesting aspects of engineering is considering the damage type. Making that hard choice between chemming the fire and malleting the stacks off, or barely managing to mallet the armor back up against a gatling. Extinguishing between cooldowns makes it a boring and braindead weapon. With atleast a second of cooldown you actually have to put a lot more consideration as to when you're going to mallet. Ext shines in situations where you have a variety of fire and actual damage attacking your ship, but prolonged engagements kill it. It could do well against a gat banshee, which is basically a less efffective version of gat flamer, which the ext cant handle, therefore its underwhelming to use. A one second cooldown would make extinguisher even better at something it's already good at over the chem: Shaving off fires and tanking damage at the same time. Whereas chem is more of simply tanking and less extinguishing long as you play it right.

[Wundsalz]

I think the best change would be to allow ext to be used during cooldowns

It has been like this about 2 years ago and was quite op. It simply prevented fires from becoming a serious threat. Fires need time to stack up and even more time to deal noteworthy damage - more than needed for another tool usage following the mallet whacking in the repair routine.

I think simply reducing the extinguisher cooldown to zero + perhaps adding some additional cool-down time is the way to go. Either way the extinguisher needs some love.

[Omniraptor]

wundsalz, fires stack up a LOT more quickly since the flamer buff. I think it might be worth reconsidering. 9 seconds (mallet cooldown) is a long time for the modern flamer to put stacks on components.

[BlackenedPies]

I think simply reducing the extinguisher cooldown to zero + perhaps adding some additional cool-down time is the way to go. Either way the extinguisher needs some love.

The issue is that it's not a simple fix because it would be the only tool to react like that. It would also promote spamming a component that is on fire. Most importantly it would not fix the fundamental issue of having any use against flamethrowers other than tanking a critical component.

If the majority like this idea then ok let's do anything to make the extinguisher useful. But I think immunity is best for allowing engineers to repair multiple components under fire. It would also help prepare them for using chem spray.

[JaegerDelta]

It would also help prepare them for using chem spray.

this is a flawed way of thinking about game balance. the extinguisher and chem spray should be right around equal, with the advantage of using either one dictated by the composition of the teams in the game.  one should not be thought of as training wheels for the other.

the decision between the two should be more akin to the choice between standard repair and buffing engineer. it depends on who and what is on both teams in the game to decide between the two general engineer builds. The same must be true of the fire fighting tools and it wont be solved with just a simple buff/change to the extinguisher, it will require adjustments to every other part of the system as well.