Handicap system..

[Caprontos]

Since this game is pure pvp.. and this means the more skill discrepancy there is between to teams the more stomping there will be.. And since .. Just the way MM works (or even the old match list for that matter) - you will always get some stacked matches.. and it also means the game is pretty much user driven..

What if muse gave us the option to handicap our ship (after some level), like nerf tools, nerf ship stats.. nerf gun stats or maybe lower the standard for the other team to win (ie 2 kills the weaker team wins but still 5 for the strong one to..).. IE make it so its harder for you to easily stomp.. - and players could decide when to employ it.. (Some people will take bad loadouts and such to do this already I know)..

Would you use this if it were available or would it require some reward for using it to make you want to use it?

Would this be a possible way to let players deal with stacked lobbies themselves by turning them in to more of a challenge.. and be reasonable?..

Just a random thought..

[Sarabelle Marlowe]

Hmm, an interesting idea. I do like the thought of having a more even match when that kind of thing shows up. Trouble is, it would mean that Muse would not only have to balance normal things, but also the nerfed ones to insure that it wasn't too too weak or too strong. And it would be nearly impossible to balance. And not everyone would want to.

Some of the time, my clan will take silly builds or bad ship choices to even it out a bit. So there is that option.

[Kamoba]

Four pilot pyramidion...
Four gunner Junker...
All harpoon mobula...
Odd loadouts which would not other wise work effectively...

Myself and others already handicap ourselves..

Silverst ignored repairing an engine for nearly all the match just to handicap the ship..

People already have imaginative ways to handy cap ourselves..

So yes I think people would us it, but it removes the ability to do it ourselves creatively:(

[Lanliss]

Give an engineer a buff, an extinguisher, and a spanner. Sound like fun?

Gunner gets loch, heatsink, and incindiary ammo.

Pilot gets tar, rangefinder, and moonshine.

I want to play on this ship now.

[DJ Logicalia]

I would totally opt for a self imposed handicap. I'll often run ridiculous builds in stacked lobbies anyway, I think this would be a great way to even things up

[RearAdmiralZill]

Wouldn't such a system create an expectation of x team with higher levels to handicap themselves every time a newer opponent was present?

On top of that , how would the newer team feel if they win against handicapped opponents? Good? Insulted?

Like someone has said already, there are plenty of ways you can already handicap yourself if you really wanted to. I typically don't just because that is rarely fun for me personally.

[BlackenedPies]

On the merit of the idea:

I think it would require a reward to use. Even something simple like bronze, silver, and gold badges for playing matches with handicaps would greatly encourage its use. With at least 300 matches required to reach gold. I also think the handicap status should be hidden until the end of the match, or hidden altogether.

An easy implementation that I think that could be reasonably balanced is significantly reduced hull hit points. Reduced damage output is also viable (and my favorite option), but would likely have to include ship impact damage.

[Richard LeMoon]

I suggested a handicap system a while ago, but it went the other way. Give the outmatched ships some sort of buff. I would not like it if my tools did not behave as they should, but would not mind if a foe's tools behaved better. Less damage on pilot, reduced recoil on guns, faster reload, longer buffs, etc. The game would have to keep track of wins and losses, of course, and only offer the handicap to players with consistent losses.

[Kamoba]

I suggested a handicap system a while ago, but it went the other way. Give the outmatched ships some sort of buff. I would not like it if my tools did not behave as they should, but would not mind if a foe's tools behaved better. Less damage on pilot, reduced recoil on guns, faster reload, longer buffs, etc. The game would have to keep track of wins and losses, of course, and only offer the handicap to players with consistent losses.

I actually don't like the reverse where the opponent receives a buff, at all....

If they're aware their opponent has given them a buff, as mentioned above, it would become an expectation for high level enemies to "Buff us or else ur a stcking pub stompas!"
If they're unaware they're being buff, what then happens is, they become confused by ship, tool and weapon capabilities, this is especially so if they are not made aware of being given "balance buff" they goto their next match with a different feel for the ship,and its capabilities, they think its faster stronger and more powerful and get themselves killed in balanced matches.... The same applies to handicapping the ship with damage output... Make the newer team which is learning feel more powerful they will learn the wrong things.

If a self imposed handicap, it should apply to armour/hull health, maybe engine speed.


But I do agree that such a system would mean it would become an expectation, which is not good..

[Hoja Lateralus]

As stated above, such system creates many problems without solving any existing problems or enhancing play.

If we want to, we handicap ourselves with different loadouts.

[Arturo Sanchez]

fighting games, rts, rhythm games, fps, mmos, mobas do no such thing and for a very good reason.

Its git gud or get out. Always has been. And the only way to do that is to go against people of similar skill levels and steadily grow. Not handicapping players that are obviously better than you. You won't learn anything from people holding back.

Oh hey guys did you know that if you lvl up you'll get nerfed? Sounds suuuuper fun right? Who the heck would play a game like that?

[Kamoba]

One handicap I saw yesterday was a cool SREP dude swap to the other team leaving his clan mates without a main engineer and adding a bit more balance to the lobby, result, two great matches.

[Caprontos]

Wouldn't such a system create an expectation of x team with higher levels to handicap themselves every time a newer opponent was present?

On top of that , how would the newer team feel if they win against handicapped opponents? Good? Insulted?

Why would it? Do you expect them to handicap themselves now by some means? Idk if new players are even aware they got stomp by terrible loadouts.. Is stomping them with a bad load out less insulting then using some other mechanic to level the field?

The point of making it player driven and not game driven - is people can decide when "they" want to use it. Hiding as suggested entirely maybe the best approach so only you know you had a harder time..  Because handicapping yourself is beneficial to you if you want more challenge when a match clearly isn't gonna give any..

Would you be upset if someone beat you while handicapped?

fighting games, rts, rhythm games, fps, mmos, mobas do no such thing and for a very good reason.

Its git gud or get out. Always has been. And the only way to do that is to go against people of similar skill levels and steadily grow. Not handicapping players that are obviously better than you. You won't learn anything from people holding back.

Oh hey guys did you know that if you lvl up you'll get nerfed? Sounds suuuuper fun right? Who the heck would play a game like that?

There are games that imploy handicap system though.. Some people like to have fun in games. Also fun =/= casual as you may want to imply as this would do the opposite for the person using it.. Since you would have to try more.

Also self-imposed actions are not forced actions. An the way your post reads you seem to feel like I am suggesting new players are allowed to handicap you against your will or the game decides it... Also level has nothing to do with it really (the level restriction is more so new people didn't use it not knowing any better - I'd be for it even being a special opt-in thing.. like being allowed to play in novice games to teach new people is).

Also "go against people of similar skill levels" so if I am clearly better then you, isn't it better for you if I play at your level so you can learn more? Or will they learn more if you just spawn camp/meat grind them to death as fast as possible and apply 0 challenge to yourself and to much to them to overcome? (Since that's how a lot of really stacked DM's go)..

Who wants to play a game where when you get good you will almost never find a challenge if you play with friends?  I mean if you can't beat low skill people with a handicap git gud or git out..

As stated above, such system creates many problems without solving any existing problems or enhancing play.

If we want to, we handicap ourselves with different loadouts.

So why doesn't these loadouts cause the same problems? I do not believe any new problem would exist because there were more options to make challenge... nor would it remove the current options.

It does help solve a problem though.. As it would make an otherwise non-challenge become a challenge - for you.. weather only you know it or everyone in the lobby does.. Weather that enhances gameplay would be an opinion as its a matter of if you find it more fun to have a challenge over no challenge in such a case...

Of course it doesn't actually solve the issue of stacked lobbies, because you don't have to use it, but it gives more tools to if you want to.

I suggested a handicap system a while ago, but it went the other way. Give the outmatched ships some sort of buff. I would not like it if my tools did not behave as they should, but would not mind if a foe's tools behaved better. Less damage on pilot, reduced recoil on guns, faster reload, longer buffs, etc. The game would have to keep track of wins and losses, of course, and only offer the handicap to players with consistent losses.

I considered it, but I think it might be more difficult to adjust.. Its easier for you to decide.. I want to make this lobby harder for me - then it is to know if someone else wants to make it easier for them... + Kamoba's points on it make sense..

Also making it game driven and not player driven isn't good imo... I think its better to let us decide where to use it and not the game to decide "hey this guy needs to win". I think it'd be used more appropriately.. and have more interesting applications that way..

- -
Also To add I feel the handicaps would need to be adjustable on each level (ie.. you could lower just ship stats or just gun stats or just tool stats.. or just victory conditions.. to make it more fun for whoever is using it..).. - not just an all or nothing.. because that makes it harder to apply..

I don't think the handicap should be should be viewed purely as a way to make the game easier for the weaker side to win, but rather harder for you to win so its less boring. I am sure some people have fun in stomp lobbies, and prefer it to having to try.. - and I think we all do realistically sometimes but then we also wanna have to try sometimes.

How it may look could just be.. unn like

Gun Damage
(bar displaying current %) + or - 5%

For each option.. reducible to some min% but if victory condition is changeable I think it would need a lobby wide vote.. Since that effects everyone.. At lest captains voting for or against it being changed.. Everyone has to agree to change it maybe..

[Replaceable]

This isnt too far from call of duty's death streaks or indeed killstreaks.

[Thomas]

This sounds like "I'm so much better than you that I have to gimp my ship for this to even be close, and I'll still win."

Players basically do this already, when competent teams bring silly ships or try to go all gunner/pilot. It may make the match a little closer, but it's also incredibly insulting to the other team.